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Sweetwater Forums [Archived]

After 15 years of great discussions, the Sweetwater Forums are now closed and preserved as a "read-only" resource. For discussions about current gear, check us out on Facebook, YouTube, inSync, and our Knowledge Base.

Since when did Sweetwater start carrying Behringer again?

jpleong

I'm rather appalled, to be perfectly honest...
Behringer is both ethically and quality challenged and I hope Sweetwater re-considers (even if it is a strategy to be able to carry Midas and Klark-Technik...!).
JP
December 12, 2011 @04:10pm
DAS

I'm rather appalled, to be perfectly honest...
Behringer is both ethically and quality challenged and I hope Sweetwater re-considers (even if it is a strategy to be able to carry Midas and Klark-Technik...!).
JP

We've had some of the same concerns over the years, but it really appears as though a lot of that is getting much, much better...to the point that it's virtually a non-issue these days. We are stocking a pretty carefully chosen selection of their products based in part on new data (and commitments) with regard to failure rates (which are actually incredibly LOW these days), etc. We're monitoring it, and they know what our concerns are.
Even with some of those concerns (most of which are hopefully history at this point) they also have some very unique and compelling products. For instance, the analyzer in the Ultra Curve Pro (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DEQ2496/) is one of the best ones I've ever seen, and I've owned $10,000 Ivie units before. Super easy to use, good display, nice feature set -- for $326 it's a complete no-brainer if you need one. The EQ and everything else it has is a bonus.
So far their service and level of cooperation with us has been second to none. We will continue to monitor it.
December 12, 2011 @07:28pm
fdew

I bought 5 ADA 8000 a couple of years ago because things had changed. A year later one still worked. I can't say enough bad about them. All replaced with Focusrite
Friends don't let friends buy Behringer.
Frank
December 15, 2011 @12:19am
DAS

I forgot to mention that we provide a two year warranty on their stuff, as well as most everything else we sell. So you'd be covered for at least that long regardless.
December 16, 2011 @03:21pm
fdew

I forgot to mention that we provide a two year warranty on their stuff, as well as most everything else we sell. So you'd be covered for at least that long regardless.

Two year warranty is great, OK for Behringer it is down right amazing. I ask people to think about what a failure means to you. If you are in a home studio, maybe you can do it over in a couple of days. We were using Behringer preamps as part of a church mixer. (SAC) One of them failed on Good Friday. If it had failed on Easter Sunday morning it would have been a disaster and knowing it would be fixed for free would not have made me feel any better. I knew there reputation. I wanted to save money, I heard the ADA8000 was different. I tried them. Sell them for $50 with a lifetime warranty, Not interested. Sweetwater sells some good stuff with good people and good service, but Behringer isn't it. I try not to miss an opportunity to warn others.
Friends don't let friends buy Behringer.
Frank
December 17, 2011 @03:27am
DAS

Objectively -- in situations where there are mission critical applications I would almost never opt for the lowest priced products in a category, regardless of the brands involved. This is also why you tend not to see those brands on live touring rigs, etc. Everything is a balance between how much you are willing to pay for it versus how much time and flexibility you have in making it work and being able to rely on it. This also goes for your choice of where you decide to buy things.
December 19, 2011 @01:54pm
michaelhoddy

Agreed. I'm no Behringer fan by a long shot, but as the saying goes, you get what you pay for. The ADA8000 being half the cost of its cheapest direct competitor means that something is likely to give at some point. Whether or not one wants to put the unit in a position where it might "give" in a mission-critical application is really the big question.
December 19, 2011 @03:33pm
jpleong

So... Sweetwater still doesn't "carry" Midas? Is it more complicated than being aligned with Behringer?
JP
May 16, 2012 @02:44pm
PRSWILL

I will be very interested to see where this goes. I also have had a bad experience with a Behringer mixer. I also own te ADA8000 and a headphone amp from these guys. One channel on the headphone amp buzzes, and two channels on the AD8000 have some very low noise that seeps intot he mix. BUT- i bought both of these used for about $ 100 each and for the workload they see, they aren't bad. The mixer was another issue and I would NEVER recoommend their mixers to anyone.
I hope this works our for Sweetwater- many of us really trust you guys as the premier outfitter in music equipment and aligning yourself with these guys does expose you a bit. Personally, I shop with Sweetwater for the really high end stuff only- I 'll leave the lower end stuff to guitar center.
June 14, 2012 @07:16pm
fdew

I'm rather appalled, to be perfectly honest...
Behringer is both ethically and quality challenged.
JP

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Behringer, Ebtech
Frank
June 16, 2012 @10:54pm
elwoodblues1969

I'm rather appalled, to be perfectly honest...
Behringer is both ethically and quality challenged and I hope Sweetwater re-considers (even if it is a strategy to be able to carry Midas and Klark-Technik...!).
JP

I don't see the logic in being appalled by the fact that Sweetwater carries Behringer,without any protest from you that Sweetwater also carries Samson and Alesis.
Since these companies also manufacture defective and entry level products,you might as well b**ch and moan about these brands as well.
I am a former owner of the Behringer Truth 3030's and they were one of the most reliable & useful budget pieces of gear I had ever used(and no,they didn't die-but rather,I sold them for an upgrade).
I also have and still own,a Behringer UMX610 midi controller and it works perfectly fine and it's the only 61 key semi-weighted controller in it's price range.
Actually,it makes the most sense for Sweetwater to carry Behringer,since they stand behind their merchandise more than any other retailer.
Good news is,you are not required in any way to purchase Behringer products....but if you're worried about what your friends my think of you for shopping at a retailer that stooped low enough to carry such a brand and your mortified by this,then perhaps you should shop elsewhere.
Good luck trying to find a music store that doesn't carry Behringer though.....
August 15, 2012 @07:34pm
jpleong

I don't see the logic in being appalled by the fact that Sweetwater carries Behringer,

I guess you're not very aware of their history and reputation in the prosumer industry.

without any protest from you that Sweetwater also carries Samson and Alesis.
Since these companies also manufacture defective and entry level products,you might as well b**ch and moan about these brands as well.

You're assuming "cheap" is the reason for my protest.

I am a former owner of the Behringer Truth 3030's and they were one of the most reliable & useful budget pieces of gear I had ever used(and no,they didn't die-but rather,I sold them for an upgrade).

Glad you liked them, but I would have recommended a better near-field for just a little bit more than what you probably paid. Then, you probably wouldn't have had the itch to upgrade and you'd have a monitor that didn't rely on aping off Genelec to sell units.

I also have and still own,a Behringer UMX610 midi controller and it works perfectly fine and it's the only 61 key semi-weighted controller in it's price range.

Yup. Behringer can make things that work, that much is true. And it's also true many of their digital products are unique, effective designs that don't suck as much as their analog products. You're missing a big chunk of history there, though, if that's the only thing you base your opinion on.

Actually,it makes the most sense for Sweetwater to carry Behringer,since they stand behind their merchandise more than any other retailer.

No, it doesn't. Just like it doesn't make sense for a Lexus dealer to sell Chevy Cobalts with a 60k-mile warranty. Again, you're missing a little history so let me fill you in: Circa 2000 Sweetwater makes a *BIG* splash-page entry in one installment of their quarterly catalog trumpeting the availabilty of Behringer products. Only one year later, Behringer is nowhere to be found in any Sweetwater catalog. Why? One can only speculate but I imagine it's some mix of poor reliability coupled with Behringer's lack of ethical product "development." Sweetwater took a fiscal and reputation hit then, which is why I was shocked they would try again.
It makes sense to buy Behringer from Sweetwater because of the value added proposition, but that assumes you want to play Russian Roulette with your Poker buddy.

Good news is,you are not required in any way to purchase Behringer products....but if you're worried about what your friends my think of you for shopping at a retailer that stooped low enough to carry such a brand and your mortified by this,then perhaps you should shop elsewhere.

but I AM afraid... I used to easily refer clients and friends to Sweetwater because I trusted their brand selection. Now I have to refer people with a caveat: that I review the salesman's suggestions just-in-case. You know why? Because... Drum-roll please... History! That client relationship, cultivated over years, could be worth $30, $50 thousand dollars. A Behringer product ( so cleverly marketed and "well" designed) would put my reputation in jeopardy, if solely for the fact that I referred the client to the salesman. My friends are even MORE important so, yeah, mortified is pretty much how I felt.
But, I understand, business is business. It's a rough economic season so it makes sense to follow a Walmart-style plan. The problem for me, though, is that Sweetwater has always been about the True Value proposition. I've turned dozens of clients and as many friends towards Sweetwater saying, "Sure, you might've found a cheaper price or a Behringer POS elsewhere but, Sweetwater... man, Sweetwater has standards, trained sales staff, and great support!" When one of those great qualities starts to slip, how long before the rest goes with it?
To wrap-up, Sweetwater still has a better-than-average sales staff and FANTASTIC support. They are an excellent presence in their community and I still regularly do business with them (Yucal Fuchs, specifically, if you need a good Sales Engineer). Sorry for the long post, but...
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JP
August 16, 2012 @05:40am
elwoodblues1969

I guess you're not very aware of their history and reputation in the prosumer industry.
You're assuming "cheap" is the reason for my protest.
Glad you liked them, but I would have recommended a better near-field for just a little bit more than what you probably paid. Then, you probably wouldn't have had the itch to upgrade and you'd have a monitor that didn't rely on aping off Genelec to sell units.
Yup. Behringer can make things that work, that much is true. And it's also true many of their digital products are unique, effective designs that don't suck as much as their analog products. You're missing a big chunk of history there, though, if that's the only thing you base your opinion on.
No, it doesn't. Just like it doesn't make sense for a Lexus dealer to sell Chevy Cobalts with a 60k-mile warranty. Again, you're missing a little history so let me fill you in: Circa 2000 Sweetwater makes a *BIG* splash-page entry in one installment of their quarterly catalog trumpeting the availabilty of Behringer products. Only one year later, Behringer is nowhere to be found in any Sweetwater catalog. Why? One can only speculate but I imagine it's some mix of poor reliability coupled with Behringer's lack of ethical product "development." Sweetwater took a fiscal and reputation hit then, which is why I was shocked they would try again.
It makes sense to buy Behringer from Sweetwater because of the value added proposition, but that assumes you want to play Russian Roulette with your Poker buddy.
but I AM afraid... I used to easily refer clients and friends to Sweetwater because I trusted their brand selection. Now I have to refer people with a caveat: that I review the salesman's suggestions just-in-case. You know why? Because... Drum-roll please... History! That client relationship, cultivated over years, could be worth $30, $50 thousand dollars. A Behringer product ( so cleverly marketed and "well" designed) would put my reputation in jeopardy, if solely for the fact that I referred the client to the salesman. My friends are even MORE important so, yeah, mortified is pretty much how I felt.
But, I understand, business is business. It's a rough economic season so it makes sense to follow a Walmart-style plan. The problem for me, though, is that Sweetwater has always been about the True Value proposition. I've turned dozens of clients and as many friends towards Sweetwater saying, "Sure, you might've found a cheaper price or a Behringer POS elsewhere but, Sweetwater... man, Sweetwater has standards, trained sales staff, and great support!" When one of those great qualities starts to slip, how long before the rest goes with it?
To wrap-up, Sweetwater still has a better-than-average sales staff and FANTASTIC support. They are an excellent presence in their community and I still regularly do business with them (Yucal Fuchs, specifically, if you need a good Sales Engineer). Sorry for the long post, but...
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JP

I'm not just referring to inexpensive products,as I've had Alesis and Samson products that have had issues.Many years ago,I had a pair of Samson Resolv 5" and a soldering joint gave way.
I then delivered them to my local repair shop and the jack-**s that repaired the problem,caused another problem,because he did not assemble the speaker wire contacts correctly.
I finally had to send the speakers to Samson directly and those jerks sent me a different pair of refurbished speakers.
As for Alesis,I had a pair of the original M1 520's monitors and there was about 30 decibels of hiss coming from the amplifiers,which made it impossible for me to mix on them.Most monitors in this price range don't have this problem.
I also had an Alesis Multi-Mix 6 channel mixer,which was just as filthy noise-wise,as the monitors I had bought.Seriously...I would have been better off going to Radio Shack for recording gear.

If you want to completely dismiss a pair of monitors just by the mere virtue of them mimicking a design,then your attitude problem is yours and yours alone.
Embrace your provincial attitude and think whatever pleases you,but my former Truth 3030's were not only amazingly reliable,they were the best mixing tool I ever had in the $300 range(but I had the opportunity to buy a pair of Adam A7's,so I then had no reason to keep them....although I probably should have kept them,as an emergency back up).

Speaking of a lack of ethical product development,Alesis was bought out by Numark and as a result,scores of Alesis Fusion synth owners got outright ripped off,due to virtually no product support,as the new staff did not have the necessary technical knowledge to address the many defect issues this keyboard had and everyone with defective keyboards got burned...specifically anyone who experienced such issues outside the warranty.
I'm not defending Behringer entirely,as they do indeed,have and had,many defect issues-but unlike Alesis,Behringer's issues are addressed and resolved & the problem is usually simple to fix.
I've had a long history with Sweetwater,so I am well aware that their product knowledge surpasses that of any other retailer...but there are other attributes of a retailer that are equally important to me.
One of which is price matching and depending on which salesman you're dealing with,you may be refused this service altogether and if you deal with someone who is willing to negotiate,you will rarely get a price match dollar for dollar and I have been told by the aforementioned salesman,that Sweeterwater's excellent level of customer service is something you pay extra for.
There was a time when I gave Sweetwater 90% of my business and I dealt with the very same guy you spoke of,& despite all of the business I threw his way,he would not cut me much of a break...when I had bought an Alesis Ion from him.
I didn't have the full $600 to pay out all at once and despite my making a down payment of $400 which is 75% of the total cost,he would only reserve my Ion for a week and I NEEDED two weeks.
I was desperate and had to postpone paying some other bills for the month,just because of how impatient this guy was to receive his beloved commission.
What was equally irritating about this guy,is that if I wanted a second opinion on a certain piece of gear-I could not get it,because he ALWAYS intercepted phone calls I had made specifically towards other sales people.
A friend of mine from Illinois years ago,had a much worse experience with a different salesman,which was that this guy promised my friend a specific package deal on a computer system and when he didn't get the precise package he asked for,the salesman refused to honor the deal....so my friend complained to his superior.
Once the salesman got wind of this,he left threatening messages with my friend and as it turned out,this guy ended up resigning from Sweetwater,before the s**t really hit the fan.
This is of course,an extreme and rare incident...but the point is,if you put your implicit trust into any retailer,it is foolish...as you could get burned.
In recent years,my experience with Sweetwater has been mainly positive,but I do have mixed feelings about this company,as I do with a few others...but that's the world of business that most of ushave to deal with....but just know that your particular experiences with Sweetwater,do not reflect the experiences of everyone else.
I'd like to reiterate that while I do fully agree about Sweetwater's product knowledge being the best available,well...it's not always the case exactly,as I used Sweeter's remote service feature...for assistance with the installation of my NI Komplete 6 software,as it were(which by the way,was never resolved by Sweetwater) and if it wasn't for the help of a fellow member of the Presonus forum....I may have never sorted about my installation issues,because NI's support is a joke.
One more thing I'd like to add,is that Sweetwater may very well be the proverbial Xanadu for the high dollar clientele....but for those of us non-pros on a budget,such items as Sweetwater's computers are insanely overpriced....so much so,that the extraordinary level of customer service,does not ease the pain of the price tag and I have heard legions of the very same complaints from people other than myself.
For those on a budget who know virtually nothing about setting up and audio-based PC and have to rely on buying from Sweetwater just to get up and running...my heart goes out to them...because an average of paying $1500 for a Sweetwater PC,is some seriously hard coin...for what you get.

While I'm thinking about it,I should mention that Adam Audio seems to be in a decline of reliability like that of Behringer and I had ordered a pair of their monitors from there AX line and they were dead on arrival.
I had read about some folks having problems with the old A7's...but I was fortunate enough not to experience any such complications.
If I were to buy Adam again,I'd probably go for the F-line that's due in October.It was never really made clear to me,as to why Sweetwater no longer carries Adam...but I would think keeping Adam's budget line,would have made sense...given the present state of the economy.

Here's something really interesting to know as well...I read a customer review on BHphotovideo.com regarding a model of Focal's CS line,where the speakers wires had come undone and there was a blotch of adhesive on one of the drivers.
At least Behringer has the excuse of outsourcing & cheap prices,but Focals are made in France and cost considerably more...so what's their excuse for poor quality control?
Granted...how often does this happen with Focals?...but then,given Focal's reputation and price range,is this at all acceptable?
August 16, 2012 @03:34pm
Dave Burris

If you want to completely dismiss a pair of monitors just by the mere virtue of them mimicking a design,then your attitude problem is yours and yours alone.

I would say it's a bit more than that since others might share that viewpoint. Mimic?
August 18, 2012 @07:00pm
elwoodblues1969

I would say it's a bit more than that since others might share that viewpoint. Mimic?

Yeah...quite a few presumptuous and pretentious imbeciles out there share the same viewpoint and their hatred is usually and vastly unsubstantiated,because they never bothered to give them a chance.
This guy never even heard the 3030's most likely, and certainly never worked with them...I mean why would he ever?
If this jack-**s feels as though Sweetwater's Behringer merchandise is giving his reputation a black eye...then of course,he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about,with regard the Truth 3030 model or any of the other decent products Behringer has made here and there .....as he wouldn't be caught dead even setting foot into a music store that carried Behringer(assuming that's possible,as Behringer is everywhere.
Even M-Audio has made plenty of faulty gear over the years and yet,no one seems to be pitching a fit over Sweetwater carrying M-Audio...hmmm...go figure.
So Godd**n what if Behringer is emulating some Genelec designs...do you really think that if Behringer came up with an original design,that it would somehow improve their sonic performance?
Genelec has some stout waveguides surrounding their tweeters and if Behringer copies this design,how is that a bad thing?
All that matters,is that the Truth 3030's are reliable and that they are a good mixing tool for the money,for those that have limited budgets and Sweetwater has never been an exclusively pro-high-end musical instrument store ...but Mr.-pro-f**king engineer has his head so far up his butt about his precious reputation.
Bad economy or not,virtually all music stores have to cater to the masses....especially with all of the internet-based music retailers to compete with.
I could see people taking issue with Sweetwater carrying Behringer,if that meant that this brand was replacing a high end brand.
This guy was actually complaining about having to warn his clients that Sweetwater now carries Behringer(whereas before somehow,he could refer his clients to this retailer with complete confidence...just because of one particular brand)...WTF??
If Behringer really is this notorious for making nothing but garbage,then it should be a no brainer for the general public to avoid this brand,thus negating the need to even mention to your client,to avoid Behringer.
Why is Behringer such an embarrassment to jpleong,when Sweetwater also carries Tascam,Casio,Alesis,Samson and the like?How much different is Behringer from these other brands?They're all made in China,they all have particular models that people should avoid,and I've personally had plenty of headaches from ALL of these brands at one time or another,over the years.
August 19, 2012 @03:23am