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Need help Recording electronic drums

a1drummer07

okay. Ive got:
yamaha dtxpress IV
M Audio midisport uno USB/MIDI CABLE
What else do i need
I am using MIXCRAFT 4.2 and
ALL I want to do is record my playing with the sounds on the drum module to the computer.
The only thing it'll let me do is record them with mixcrafts drum sounds (WHICH SUCK).
How do I do this?
Do i need another program. I have cakewalk but I misplaced my serial number and am looking for it.
September 27, 2008 @05:09pm
skinnymike

Ok. you want to record drums(audio) and you have said that you have a midi interface. you need an audio/midi interface. i haven't used cakewalk but if it can record audio you will be fine. good luck!
okay. Ive got:
yamaha dtxpress IV
M Audio midisport uno USB/MIDI CABLE
What else do i need
I am using MIXCRAFT 4.2 and
ALL I want to do is record my playing with the sounds on the drum module to the computer.
The only thing it'll let me do is record them with mixcrafts drum sounds (WHICH SUCK).
How do I do this?
Do i need another program. I have cakewalk but I misplaced my serial number and am looking for it.
October 29, 2008 @10:29pm
Danny Danzi

If you'll be using Cakewalk or Sonar, all you need to do is use your gameport/joystick port for midi if you do not have a dedicated midi box. You'll need a midi in and a midi out. The in allows you to record the midi drums, the out will allow you to hear the module. You will also need audio cables hooked up to your drum module that need to be run into your soundcard. Left and right outs if you want stereo. These audio connections are essential or you will not hear sound at all because all midi is, is pulses of x's and o's. The midi information is not sound at all. It is what triggers sound from a sound module, so you MUST have audio cables running from your module to your soundcard or in my case, I run all my modules into a mixing board.
But before you can do any of that, you will have to open Cakewalk and go to midi options and see if your midi device you'll be using appears in the menu. Select it for in and out in both menus and click ok. You then will have to choose the "instruments" option and you will have to select your midi device on the right, and then select all the channels on the left (1-16) by left clicking and holding, and then just dragging down and they will all hi-lite. Click ok, and you should be in business. Now, if you go to the instruments page and do not see your midi piece listed, you will need to click on "define" which will allow you to search your Cakewalk directory for an instrument definition of your midi piece. You do not necessarily have to use this, but if it exists and turns up, this will give you the ability to literally see the names of your patches in your midi module while working within a track on Cakewalk.
If you just choose a general midi option, it will still work but when you go to choose a patch, the correct patch name will not be present in your options on the track, that's all.
From there, if everything works as it should, you would create a midi track in Cakewalk. Set your in port to the midi devices you will be transmitting from, and then choose the outport of that same device and make sure it is set to channel 10. Channel 10 is the default for midi drums and it is important you set this or you may get the sound of a piano coming out. LOL!!
Also, make sure you go into your midi module and make sure that the unit defaults to channel 10 for percussion. Most of them are set to do this from the factory, but some of the older pieces you have to go in and manually set up because they most times default to channel 1 for everything and leave it upto you to adjust. You also want to set "local" to off in your module options in the midi category. Local off means the module will sync up to the clock in Cakewalk and disables the clock in the drum module. If you leave local set to "on" you may have sync problems.
However, in the event setting local to off messes with your stuff, you can just turn it back on and try it. In most gear, local to off is the correct selection but there have been a few occassions to where I have had to leave it on in older gear. When you have everything set up, arm your midi track, press record and you should be in business and recording midi drums and hearing the sounds from your module. You will have to try and select the correct sound using Cakewalk in the channel menu on the track though because it will change it to what you have selected.
Meaning, if the track you create defaults to sound/patch 1 and you are playing patch 17 on your module when you record, as soon as you rewind and hit play, the midi data in Cake will set your midi module to patch 1 and play those sound. To stop this from happening you can just leave your sound menu in Cake blank so it doesn't choose a sound and manually use your patches in your midi module. Your best bet though is to try and select the right sound and this is where using general midi in the "define" part I told you about could get tricky as the sounds in this dropdown box will not be the same as what you see on your module. Sometimes general midi sounds are one number off. So in reality, if you want sound 17 on your module to play through, you may have to select sound 16 on your Cake track.
I'll give you a rundown on how I have mine set up so you might further understand how this works, ok? I know some of this is confusing without seeing it, but it's the best I can do with just text and no screen shots. But, this may be helpful since what you will be doing is similar to what I have done. The only difference is, I have a dedicated midi box and if you do not, you'll have to use your game port/joystick in the back of your soundcard for your midi in and out, and you'll need a special dual cable for midi in/out with that setup.
I have a MOTU midi Express XT midi box connected to my system. This allows me to plug in 8 midi devices and it's 8 in 8 out. Anything I plug into it will feed through Sonar as long as I have the correct midi in and outs selected in Sonar's midi configuration. Sonar and Cakewalk are basically the same in setting up, so no worries. After all my ins and outs are selected in the midi setup part of Sonar, I need to define the instruments because they do not appear as default instruments in the right side menu.
To do this, I click on define and search for Roland V Drums TD 20 or whatever I'm using in the master.ins, or Roland.ins that will appear in your Cakewalk or Sonar directory in the "browse" part of this menu. You'll see several .ins files. Each one contains what is called "instrument definitions" for each manufacturer as well as general and misc instrument definitions. Your piece may not be listed in any of these, but that's ok. You can just use a general midi instrument list like I mentioned above.
From there, once I find my TD 20 instrument definition in the Roland.ins file, I select it and click ok and it will now appear in my right side menu. I select it, and then grab the channels of this device on the left side, and left click and hold while I drag down until channels 1-16 hi-lite. Once this is done, I click ok and close the box.
I create a midi track, set my in port to the proper port for my V Drums which in my case would be port 2, select my out port to port 2, select my midi channel to 10, and then select what patch I will be using. Because I have selected and defined instrument definitions for my Roland gear, I have all the correct patches 1-50 that appear just like the patches that are on my TD 20 brain. Without the instrument definitions, I would have to use general midi like I told you and try to guess what number patch I'd be using or like I said, leave it blank and control things manually.
From there I arm the track, press record and I should see midi data being recorded. When I stop playback and press play, I should hear the midi playing from my TD 20 brain in real time and that's all there is to it. Keep in mind, you will need to hook up instrument cables to your drum module and connect it to your soundcard or mixing board. Since I have other midi gear on my pc, I can literally send the out port to another piece of gear and it will still play back. For example, remember I selected port 2 as my Roland out port? If I change this to port 3, it will play back the midi I recorded on my Yamaha drum machine. If I select port 4, it will playback drums from my Korg Triton.
Or, if you really want to go nuts with this stuff which is now pretty much standard procedure, Sonar 8 has softsynths built into it and has something called Session Drummer. I could load this up on a blank audio track, and send my out port of my original midi track to "Session Drummer" and it will play back the drums that synth has to offer in real time. So you have quite a few options available to you. However, Cakewalk does not have the same support for softsynths like Sonar does and Cake does not offer any drum synths at all. So you may have to buy a few add-ons. I hope some of this helps and I'm sorry if some of it is confusing, but it's the best I could do for you. Good luck!
November 23, 2008 @01:23pm
Matt John

After the room has been chosen and the drums set up, you can now begin to pull out the microphones." ???????You forgot the most important thing. In order for the drums to sound good with mics on them, they need to sound good without mics on them. We spend more time tweaking and tuning, making the drums sound their best than we doing throwing up mics. I have recorded drummers who have owned their kits for years and never once tuned a bottom head. It can determine the sound of the entire recording. You have a lot of good information in your article, but it is useless if the drums don't sound good.
March 3, 2010 @04:43am
Danny Danzi

After the room has been chosen and the drums set up, you can now begin to pull out the microphones." ???????You forgot the most important thing. In order for the drums to sound good with mics on them, they need to sound good without mics on them. We spend more time tweaking and tuning, making the drums sound their best than we doing throwing up mics. I have recorded drummers who have owned their kits for years and never once tuned a bottom head. It can determine the sound of the entire recording. You have a lot of good information in your article, but it is useless if the drums don't sound good.

No sure if this reply is for me, but there is nowhere in this thread where "After the room has been chosen and the drums set up, you can now begin to pull out the microphones." appears. Who said that? Are you confused with another thread? There IS no mic-technique needed for midi drums. Midi drum recording is what we are talking about here, not mic'ing a real kit.
March 3, 2010 @04:59am
pqkawara

If you'll be using Cakewalk or Sonar, all you need to do is use your gameport/joystick port for midi if you do not have a dedicated midi box. You'll need a midi in and a midi out. The in allows you to record the midi drums, the out will allow you to hear the module. You will also need audio cables hooked up to your drum module that need to be run into your soundcard. Left and right outs if you want stereo. These audio connections are essential or you will not hear sound at all because all midi is, is pulses of x's and o's. The midi information is not sound at all. It is what triggers sound from a sound module, so you MUST have audio cables running from your module to your soundcard or in my case, I run all my modules into a mixing board.
But before you can do any of that, you will have to open Cakewalk and go to midi options and see if your midi device you'll be using appears in the menu. Select it for in and out in both menus and click ok. You then will have to choose the "instruments" option and you will have to select your midi device on the right, and then select all the channels on the left (1-16) by left clicking and holding, and then just dragging down and they will all hi-lite. Click ok, and you should be in business. Now, if you go to the instruments page and do not see your midi piece listed, you will need to click on "define" which will allow you to search your Cakewalk directory for an instrument definition of your midi piece. You do not necessarily have to use this, but if it exists and turns up, this will give you the ability to literally see the names of your patches in your midi module while working within a track on Cakewalk.
If you just choose a general midi option, it will still work but when you go to choose a patch, the correct patch name will not be present in your options on the track, that's all.
From there, if everything works as it should, you would create a midi track in Cakewalk. Set your in port to the midi devices you will be transmitting from, and then choose the outport of that same device and make sure it is set to channel 10. Channel 10 is the default for midi drums and it is important you set this or you may get the sound of a piano coming out. LOL!!
Also, make sure you go into your midi module and make sure that the unit defaults to channel 10 for percussion. Most of them are set to do this from the factory, but some of the older pieces you have to go in and manually set up because they most times default to channel 1 for everything and leave it upto you to adjust. You also want to set "local" to off in your module options in the midi category. Local off means the module will sync up to the clock in Cakewalk and disables the clock in the drum module. If you leave local set to "on" you may have sync problems.
However, in the event setting local to off messes with your stuff, you can just turn it back on and try it. In most gear, local to off is the correct selection but there have been a few occassions to where I have had to leave it on in older gear. When you have everything set up, arm your midi track, press record and you should be in business and recording midi drums and hearing the sounds from your module. You will have to try and select the correct sound using Cakewalk in the channel menu on the track though because it will change it to what you have selected.
Meaning, if the track you create defaults to sound/patch 1 and you are playing patch 17 on your module when you record, as soon as you rewind and hit play, the midi data in Cake will set your midi module to patch 1 and play those sound. To stop this from happening you can just leave your sound menu in Cake blank so it doesn't choose a sound and manually use your patches in your midi module. Your best bet though is to try and select the right sound and this is where using general midi in the "define" part I told you about could get tricky as the sounds in this dropdown box will not be the same as what you see on your module. Sometimes general midi sounds are one number off. So in reality, if you want sound 17 on your module to play through, you may have to select sound 16 on your Cake track.
I'll give you a rundown on how I have mine set up so you might further understand how this works, ok? I know some of this is confusing without seeing it, but it's the best I can do with just text and no screen shots. But, this may be helpful since what you will be doing is similar to what I have done. The only difference is, I have a dedicated midi box and if you do not, you'll have to use your game port/joystick in the back of your soundcard for your midi in and out, and you'll need a special dual cable for midi in/out with that setup.
I have a MOTU midi Express XT midi box connected to my system. This allows me to plug in 8 midi devices and it's 8 in 8 out. Anything I plug into it will feed through Sonar as long as I have the correct midi in and outs selected in Sonar's midi configuration. Sonar and Cakewalk are basically the same in setting up, so no worries. After all my ins and outs are selected in the midi setup part of Sonar, I need to define the instruments because they do not appear as default instruments in the right side menu.
To do this, I click on define and search for Roland V Drums TD 20 or whatever I'm using in the master.ins, or Roland.ins that will appear in your Cakewalk or Sonar directory in the "browse" part of this menu. You'll see several .ins files. Each one contains what is called "instrument definitions" for each manufacturer as well as general and misc instrument definitions. Your piece may not be listed in any of these, but that's ok. You can just use a general midi instrument list like I mentioned above.
From there, once I find my TD 20 instrument definition in the Roland.ins file, I select it and click ok and it will now appear in my right side menu. I select it, and then grab the channels of this device on the left side, and left click and hold while I drag down until channels 1-16 hi-lite. Once this is done, I click ok and close the box.
I create a midi track, set my in port to the proper port for my V Drums which in my case would be port 2, select my out port to port 2, select my midi channel to 10, and then select what patch I will be using. Because I have selected and defined instrument definitions for my Roland gear, I have all the correct patches 1-50 that appear just like the patches that are on my TD 20 brain. Without the instrument definitions, I would have to use general midi like I told you and try to guess what number patch I'd be using or like I said, leave it blank and control things manually.
From there I arm the track, press record and I should see midi data being recorded. When I stop playback and press play, I should hear the midi playing from my TD 20 brain in real time and that's all there is to it. Keep in mind, you will need to hook up instrument cables to your drum module and connect it to your soundcard or mixing board. Since I have other midi gear on my pc, I can literally send the out port to another piece of gear and it will still play back. For example, remember I selected port 2 as my Roland out port? If I change this to port 3, it will play back the midi I recorded on my Yamaha drum machine. If I select port 4, it will playback drums from my Korg Triton.
Or, if you really want to go nuts with this stuff which is now pretty much standard procedure, Sonar 8 has softsynths built into it and has something called Session Drummer. I could load this up on a blank audio track, and send my out port of my original midi track to "Session Drummer" and it will play back the drums that synth has to offer in real time. So you have quite a few options available to you. However, Cakewalk does not have the same support for softsynths like Sonar does and Cake does not offer any drum synths at all. So you may have to buy a few add-ons. I hope some of this helps and I'm sorry if some of it is confusing, but it's the best I could do for you. Good luck!

After the room has been chosen and the drums set up, you can now begin to pull out the microphones." ???????You forgot the most important thing. In order for the drums to sound good with mics on them, they need to sound good without mics on them. We spend more time tweaking and tuning, making the drums sound their best than we doing throwing up mics. I have recorded drummers who have owned their kits for years and never once tuned a bottom head. It can determine the sound of the entire recording. You have a lot of good information in your article, but it is useless if the drums don't sound good.
_________________
May 3, 2011 @04:36pm
Danny Danzi

After the room has been chosen and the drums set up, you can now begin to pull out the microphones." ???????You forgot the most important thing. In order for the drums to sound good with mics on them, they need to sound good without mics on them. We spend more time tweaking and tuning, making the drums sound their best than we doing throwing up mics. I have recorded drummers who have owned their kits for years and never once tuned a bottom head. It can determine the sound of the entire recording. You have a lot of good information in your article, but it is useless if the drums don't sound good.
_________________

pq, I think you quoted the wrong person in this. If you read my big comment up there, you'd see I was talking about "midi drums" not acoustic drums. There is no room or mics needed for midi drums. ;)
May 3, 2011 @05:57pm