Live Gear in the same league...

[waxnsteel]

I'm upgrading mixers to a Midas-Venice from an Allen-Heath 16:2
I was kind of wondering what other stuff is in the same league. Not looking to get more stuff to weaken the chain, but don't want to overkill either. I'm using a BSS Opal 2x30 EQ and a DBX 166XL comp on mains, and a couple Crown K2's for power. Speaker's are EV with an EV crossover. I was looking for advice on comp's in the range for individual channels, and outboard effects(the A-H board had them onboard). Opinions?

[JeffBarnett]

<shameless plug> First of all, if you haven't already, get your Venice from Sweetwater. We are a Midas dealer, although they aren't listed on the website. </shameless plug>

The "standard" compressor for this application is the dbx 160a. They sound great, but there's a real estate problem. Each one is a single channel, and it consumes a whole rack space. If you are looking for 24 channels of compression, I hope you have a big rack case and a very strong back.

I'd go with the PreSonus ACP88. It has eight channels of premium compression, definitely on par with the rest of your system, in 2 little compact rack spaces. 24 channels, therefore, is 6U instead of 24U.

Outboard effects? I guess it depends on what type of effects you are looking for, how many channels you need, etc.

My short list of good effects processors for live sound include:
Lexicon MPX550
Kurzweil Rumour (reverb/delay)
Kurzweil Mangler (everything else)
TC Electronic M2000
and the ultimate...
Kurzweil KSP8

[waxnsteel]

Thanks for your input, Jeff. I found a used 240, and a pretty good price. When I first started buying a serious PA, I was hanging out and watching Bob the soundguy, and he swore by DBX. I got the 166XL, and I understand about not hearing it work. And yeah, I wish the 160a's were smaller. I never got a chance to mess w/ 1066's/1046's how do they compare with the ACP-88 in your eyes? I've never really heard anyone talk bout those DBX units, but there's tons out there about the Presonus. And no gates on the 1046, right? Anyay, some people recommend specific boxes for specific tasks. For ex. I've heard people say they's use the ACP-88 on drums but not vocals, yadda yadda. I may mix and match. I won't exactly be buying for a while, I like to do a butload of research before I buy, though there have been a few impulse buys. I've been happy with them, though. So comps may go mix and match.
I'm looking for a few good reverbs/delays. Something that doesn't require too much tweaking. Some of those look like to much machine for me. lol A lot of people praised the TC M one in another thread. I know they don't have as many features and all, but is the sound quality there? I have like zero experience with TC. I don't like the low end Lexicon stuff, though. I never dug it on live sound.

[flattop100]

My response on a couple units--

Yes and no on the ACP88 on vocals...I think a lot of people get thrown by the LED's. They see it light up in a hurry and think it's hitting too hard--nobody notices that it starts at -1 db, then -3, etc....the scale is funny. I use it on an a cappella pop group, and for everything but vocal bass, I think it does pretty damn well. Sure I'd love an upgrade, but I'm not complaining.

Ditto the TC M-1. Again, I think it comes across a little weak when all you have to use it on are vocals. Maybe a better way of refining your search is to think about price ranges? Or are you just gear-dreaming?

Speaking of gear--has anyone heard Klark's "new" EQ, the DN370? It looks kinda sweet, and I'm wondering how well it works...

[waxnsteel]

Not just gear-dreaming. I am going to get more of this stuff. Just not today. And it's not a price-range I'm looking at, it's a quality range. Kind of like you wouldn't plug a U47 into a 4-track, right. Granted people plug SM57's into everything, but that's a different story. I read your old thread after I posted. Sounds like you have a great system. Thanks for the clue on the metering. I'll be sure to use my ears rather than my eyes if I go the ACP Route. I was thinking, comp wise, no more than $100-150 per channel, if I had to rationalize a price range, and maybe somewhere between $400 and $1200 on reverb/effects. But, we'll see when we get there.

[flattop100]

I'm definitely dreaming of a KSP-8, but I'm also wondering how good the Eventide Eclipses sound. I've heard mixed reviews (no pun in ten did).

[xstatic]

I love my Eventide Eclipse, but I don't own a Kurzweil to make a good direct comparison.

As far as the compressors go, I would pull that 166 off your mains. Running a compressor on mains is inviting other issues unless the compressor is designed well and designed for 2 buss applications or at least properly sidechained. Also, I wouldn't bother with any 160's until you have some other standard more versatile comps in your rack. In my opinion the DBX 1066's will eat the Presonus for lunch. I even like the 166's better. However, the Presonus is a very easy to use and decent sounding light gate/comp for toms and snare, or just use the gating facility for kick. If you can maybe look for 2 channels of Drawmer, BSS or Klark Teknik EQ, a DBX 1046, and the Presonus. That gives you 12 channels of comps, some or all with gates. That should be more than enough for most bands.

Personally, I would much rather have 2 TC M1's than 1 TC M2000. Or better yet, and M1 and a D2. Then maybe go look for a used Yamaha spx900 or 990. You should be able to get one for less than $500 and it is VERY usable and widely accepted.