Why do keyboard amps suck? Feel free to disagree...

[jivie.77]

I care about my sound as much as my guitarist does - why do keyboard amps suck?

I'm a gigging pianist (too ashamed of my sound quality to admit to being a keyboard player, although I have loved my Kurzweils till the PC series' evolution - or lack thereof - has turned me off), music director and teacher ... but young enough that I gotta keep playin' every chance I get, knowing that any time I'm just too tired of it, I've got a musically-oriented non-performing career lined up and ready to go.

Sound issues have nearly destroyed my passion for making music. More specifically, I hate having to compete for sound space in a combo setting, and when I turn up, rather than a sweet sound coming through, the keys sound harsh, brittle, artificial, and I'm disappointed enough to be creatively stifled.

My sound guru and musical empath is a guitarist who swears by the quality of her tubes in realizing her sweet spots and loving her tone.

Not many tubes around in keyboard amps - I like what I see in models from Motion Sound (KP-100S, KT-80), and some of the Barbetta amps look like they might help me (Sona 31C, 41C, 43C), but I'm not finding much else to research.

I HATE ROLAND AMP SOUND. Only my opinion, though... they're definitely workhorses.

Work playing music is taking me on a lot of flights with my pseudo-rig (Kurzweil PC2 running direct into a large house PA back into 2 band monitor wedges), and I'm just so sick of my sound being run through crappy monitor mixes that I gotta look at some other options. How can I find a keyboard amp that'll make me happy with my sound, but will travel well and accomodate a variety of venue sizes and sound systems? Specifically, to avoid over-weight charges on every leg of every flight, I need the cased amp(s) to come in under 50 lbs.

I don't care how good a soundman can make me, if it doesn't hit my ears like it does comin' from the baby grand at home, I'm not gonna dig it. That's why I say I gotta have an amp. I can't stand plugging earphones in - I still want some air to talk to my bandmates thru, and feeling the live stage mix is important to me... but I need a way to be an important part of that live stage mix.

Any and all thoughts are much appreciated!

[Bob]

The Barbetta stuff is really great sounding, your should try it out. Also, the motion sound ain't to shabby.

You can also look into a good set of powered PA speakers like the Mackie SRM450's or JBL Eon's.

[michaelhoddy]

I will second that I really dislike the sound of the Roland amps. I have two KC500's, and I don't like them one bit. In addition to sounding rather bad, they are not biamped so they break up under even moderate bass.

The Barbetta amps are much better, and using a Mackie SRM450 or JBL EON powered speaker is also a fabulous idea. Both are lighter, have a good bit more power (especially in the case of the Mackie), are biamped, and sound great.

[danhazer]

I'll third the SRM450s. Mackie also recently came out with the SRM350. Less power, slightly lower cost, but still bi-amped and time alligned, like their big cousin the 450.

Thanks,

Dan

[Frederick]

Some of the best keyboard amplification I have seen for live gigging are essentially PAs - the most elaborate I witnessed had two huge Community full range cabinets and a full rack behind the keyboard player with an angled yamaha stage mixer with flying faders he accessed during the performance. When I asked him why, he said he got tired of going mono and one thing led to another, lol.

[Kurzwiel Karl]

Hello all and happy holidays to everyone. I wanted to introduce myself and to say hello. I live in San Antonio Tx and play keyboards in a local classic rock band.

I too have been frustrated with the keyboard amp sounds. I went from a Yamaha PA board and 2 Melhart speakers, to a Fender KB200, to a Peavey KB300. Everyone had their drawbacks.

I have recently moved to a pair of Mackie
1521 and running it with a Berringer 1202 mixer. I looked at the 450s and got a Godfather deal on the 1521's and couldn't pass them up.

Finally, I'm getting true piano sounds and in stereo too! These are the sweetist sounding speakers that I've ever heard and clean. I know that they may be a bit much in your traveling requirements and the 450s would probably fit you better. Just wanted to chime in and say hello!

[jivie.77]

THANKS FOR THE FEEDBACK........

I'm intrigued to hear the thoughts - a couple of questions for the PA-system keyboardists:
1) Don't your soundmen get sick of your stage volume? My experience in using a full p.a. for my amplification and personal monitoring of my sound is that the lower I go in volume (through my p.a.'s mixer and/or amp; keyboard stays at about 40% most of the time), the worse in quality the sound gets. Not to mention - most of the p.a.'s I've looked at for my rig are essentially speakers designed to project the optimum sound over a decent distance... I might prefer something that hits me well when I'm up close, but doesn't project enough to screw with the room mix.
2) Considering that most of my sound issues come from gigs where my gear flies commercially, and realistically I like to travel lighter (to a certain point), are there other quality p.a. options besides something like the Mackie 350 series?

I don't need a huge set-up, which right off-the-bat says to me I oughta be looking for high-end amps, maybe with some tubes to add warmth and life to killer vintage patches and rotary effects. Any other great amps out there, without taking a trip to look at guitar amps?

Thanks for the input - Merry Whatever and Happy New Year!!!
Jonathan Ivie

[Kurzwiel Karl]

Jonathan,

I've also run into the same problem, where the soundman keeps telling me to turn my sound down as the Mackies realy project out into the audience, but behind me, I'm having trouble hearing my own sound due to the guitar blasting me out on the monitors.

I' ve seriously considered a set of Mackie 824's either mounted on poles right in front of me, or just behind me. This way, I can hear my sound in stereo and run my keys through the PA system where the soundman can mix it in with the band and thus control the stage volume. I play through a set of these in my practice studio and love the sound.

It's either this, or I'm mounting the 1521's right behind my head and screw the soundman as these are the best sounding speakers I've ever had to pleasure of playing through! Soundmen can be a PITA anyway

[michaelhoddy]

I went to in-ear monitors (IEM's) a few years, and will never look back. Of course, this setup requires a competent FOH and/or monitor tech and a great PA, since there's no fallback in the form of stage amps, but it's sure a lot easier to load in and load out. And the sound is better, too. I use a Shure system with Future Sonics earpieces.

I would not and will not use this setup in venues where the quality of the PA is in question, or where there is not an engineer familiar with IEM's.

[Kurzwiel Karl]

Michael,

I too used to use in ears (Shure PSM 600) but the biggest draw back for me was losing the ambient sound. If you have a great sound man, then this can solve a lot of problems. The types of venues I've played have had their own sound men. Some great, and some not so great.

If you have a consistent setup from venue to venue, then the in ears can work great. I just have never had this luxury as of yet!
They sure are easy to transport though!

[edhunt]

When you used in-ears, did you ever try placing a pick up mic near you and have the sound man send it just to your ears (w/out sending it to the house). I hated my in-ears until I started doing this. It's still not as good as a great mix through a great monitor (once every 20 gigs), but it saves my hearing.

Edward

[JJB]

I too use a Mackie SRM450 for my Kurzweil and love the sound. I have even used it for a trio in a small room, 2 vocal mikes, acoustic guitar, bass, and my kurz. We were playing folkish type of music so volume was just right. I have had friends tell me how impressed they were with it. The down side is that the SRM450 does not have any simple DSP functions like a regular amp, e.g. bass, treble, mid, etc... when you connect it directly to the piano. So you may require a small mixer or eq.
I have also had the problem with the sound man and the excellent projection that the SRM450 has even at low volumes. I even set it on the floor and point it back to me, but it takes a little sound and sends it a mile.
I have heard that a lot of folks like the Barreta (sp?), but I have never heard one. I also use my Mackie 824's at home. I have used them once on a gig and they do work well if you don't want your sound to project since they are nearfield monitors.

My two cents.

John

[imdcollector]

Hey everyone...

I'm new to this issue of keyboard amps, live sound, and the like. Anyhow, I'm looking to purchase a sound system to use in mostly medium sized gigs - nothing too big. But after viewing these posts on the many downsides of the "keyboard amp" - I'm hesitent about purchasing a roland amp or the like. Any advice on a setup that would give me the quality sound I'm looking for, with power for just a medium sized gig? Also, something a little lower-priced would be ideal... any info is greatly appreciated! Thanks

[Kurzwiel Karl]

IMD,

I think what you're asking is pretty much what Jonathan did when he started the thread. What I'm gathering about this thread is that there are more keyboardists besides myself that have been dissatisfied with the current situation of the keyboard amps available.

Bottom line to me is that after using near field monitors in my study and hearing how much more realistic the piano sounds are in stereo, I knew that I would never be able to go back to mono when playing live. When you throw this into the equation, the end results are that there are very few options for us currently. I'm extremely pleased with the Mackie 1521's and my little Berringer mixer. But these units are quite cumbersome and can be difficult to haul. (I put some heavy duty casters on them and had some cloth covers made so that they could be moved a little more easily.)

You can also go to a smaller stereo system using near fields, but you need to go out into the PA. BTW, how big is medium to you?

[Jim Wintringham]

Has anyone ever used the Fender Passport systems? What did you think of it?