Compression Canundra!!!!!!!

[Brentunc]

My question is a rather basic one, but I am curious just to see how other people are handling this: When tracking drums do you guys use compression on every piece while tracking/recording??? I figure you would have to in order to get a useable track with no clipping/distortion or insane peaks, but if I am wrong and you have other ideas on this please let me know. Or maybe you do it after, but again I would figure that doing it after wouldn't get rid of those transient peaks from each piece of the set. Let me know what you guys think. Thanks again!

[djui5]

compressing to tape is a personal choice that's always left up to the engineer. It has it's benefits and downfalls, as does almost all aspects of engineering. Benefit's: louder and more controlled signal to tape. Downfalls: bad compressor setting can kill a drum kit, and it would be permanent.
If you do compress to tape...probably only the kick and snare need be compressed..depending on the kit and style of music/drummer. I personally don't compress drums to tape..but that's my opinion..and we're all free to make choices.

[xstatic]

I don't run any compression on drums to tape. In fact , it's rare that I compress individual drum tracks during mixdown. The only thing that I do compress would be the room mic to tape, but more as a special effect for a large wide sound because I stomp the room mic sometimes as much as 30 to db. During mixdown I will often throw some subtle compression/limiting on the drum master, but thats about it.

[Rodney Spaulding]

Compressing anything to tape needs consideration. It's easy to forget that the same tracks will likely be compressed and limited again during Mastering AND sometimes before that during mixing.
In other words, you can get a terrific kick drum sound (Which I almost always compress) and nice snappy snare, just to squash it by the time the final master is done.
Just a consideration. Leave some room.
BTW-even compressing AFTER your source is on tape will get rid of those peaks. That is how a limiter functions.

Cheers!

[Sinkharmony]

With vocals or bass I consider compression to tape, but not with any other instrument. With proper mic placement and good use of mic gain, you should be able to get a good signal to tape with no unruly transients. When mixing I do compress snare sometimes and bass drum sometimes but rarely anything else. If you are using Pro Tools then you can use a trick I've been using a bit to get a louder signal out of an instrument with alot of transients. After you record it, put a RTAS compressor on the channel and find a decent setting that has a fast attack (release will depend on the instrument) with a low ratio and a treshold that gives you about 3-5 dB of reduction. Then copy the setting and remove the insert. Highlight the track you wish to compress then pick a compressor from the Audiosuite menu and paste the settings you had on Rtas insert. Process it and you will notice that it will reduce your peaks, though you might have to fiddle around with it to get it perfect(the beauty of apple-z). Then normalize the channel thru audiosuite and viola! A louder track with reduced peaks. I've personally used this trick with slap bass and it's worked wonders, but I've never had to use it on drums.

[djui5]

Originally posted by Sinkharmony
After you record it, put a RTAS compressor on the channel and find a decent setting that has a fast attack (release will depend on the instrument) with a low ratio and a treshold that gives you about 3-5 dB of reduction. Then copy the setting and remove the insert.

Question,
Why remove the insert? Why not just leave it and bring up the output of the plug-in, or fader if there's not out-put to the plug-in? And normalizing isn't something I would probably do, I'd rather bring up a fader or whatever it took. It's been known to do some crazy thing's to sound, but that's my opinion..if you like then..then use it.

[Brentunc]

I am very surprised, for some reason, I was set on the idea that you had to compress drums while tracking to get rid of the peaks, but knowing that I can do this after tracking wth compression or limiting will save me alot of trouble and time. So is it completely reccommnded not to use any compression while recording and just wait till after because it is just as effective??? If I wait till after tracking, do I use regular compression like I normaly would or would I use limiting??? Any other tips on this subject for me?

[djui5]

Compression and limiting are sorta the same. The big difference is the ratio of compression. 1:1-8:1 for compression 8:1-40:1 for limiting. If you haven't had a lot of experience with compression or limiting, then please don't compress while recording. Wait till you get everything tracked..then compress in the mix if you feel like you need it. Welcome to the world of engineering! You can probably find articles on this subject in a good mixing book or on www.mixmag.com

[Brentunc]

Thanks djui5, that is very wise advice for someone like myself whi si a newbie trying to learn the ropes. What if I don't use compression while tracking like you said, but use it on each individual track after I'm done tracking??? Say I have a kick drum that got a little out of control while recording and I need to kill those peaks still, can I go in after the track is recorded and then apply compression to it individually before I apply it to the whole mix??? Can I do that to all the tracks??? Or is it just as effective to wait until I'm mixing or mastering to compress my bounced stereo tracks??? I guess I'm confused now on when and how many times compression needs to be used in the recording process??? Thanks your really helping me.

[djui5]

Brentunc,
Let me clear up about compression and mixing and mastering for you. There's a process to recording music. First you get into a studio..set up the band...and mic everything. Then you record it to whatever medium you choose. Then you mix it. Then it get's mastered. During that process there's choices to be made about how to get the recording onto the medium, what mic's to use, whether or not to EQ to tape, compress to tape, and where exactely to put the mic's and how many to use per instrument. Compressing to tape isn't something you should do untill you know compressor's pretty well...because it's permanent. Then after the music is recorded you mix it. This is where you can apply Eq'ing, compression to individual tracks, reverb, delay, flanging, and so on. This is also where you adjust the level's of each track to your liking. How loud should the guitars be....how loud should the snare be...etc..etc. Then you master. This is where precise eq'ing of the song as a whole will happen...compressing or limiting the song as a whole might or might not happen. The mastering engineer will adjust the levels of all the song's so they're as close to the same as possible..and adjust the album as a whole to a determined volume level..normally comparable to the current standards.
Now...this is where one engineer is different from another. During tracking I might compress the bass guitar's DI to tape, another engineer might not. I might compress a room mic to tape..another might not. I don't eq to tape..other's might. During mixing many thing's can happen. You can compress a kick (usually it's compressed), compress the snare..guitars..vocals...tom's...etc.etc. There's many reason's for compressing at this stage. One might be to control levels...another might be to get a certain sound. Another might be to adjust for noise floor problems. Then automation comes into play. You can adjust "spikes" with volume automation...turning the track up or down and recording the movement so it play's back when you play the song. You can also use gates to "shut off" a track when the sound isn't playing. EG: Snare mic is picking up a lot of the kick drum...so you gate it so that the only time you hear the snare mic is when the snare is hit or is playing. Compression can affect this too. Some engineers will apply slight compression (2:1-3:1) on the stereo buss during a mix to control the overall dynamics of a song and allow for greater volume. I wouldn't recommend applying compression to the stereo buss (master fader) of a song unless you felt comfortable doing so, because you can ruin the sound of the whole song this way. Mastering is an art in it's self...and should be done by someone who didn't mix the song, but if your doing it....at least use a spectrum analizer so you can have some idea of how flat the overall sound is. I hope this clears things up for you. If I can help anymore please feel free to ask!
P.S. I am kinda tired..so if I'm rambling..I'm sorry.

[Nijs]

in short,..

just ask yourself the suestion is this what i want..

if you're really happy woth the spound you get by EQ'ing, or compressing or even gating on tape.. do it,. it saves time..
if you're not, you'd better not.
why,. there's no way back.

that's why i usually just take of the low end for rumble..
i kinda live with the idea that the frequencies you get on tape can be filtered,. but you won't be able to get back the frequencies you filtered out on forehand.. (anyone else with the same opinion ?)

greetz

[xstatic]

I used to run everything to tape without compression and without EQ. This way I wouldn't overdo something that could not be undone at a later time. Lately i have started compressing and EQ'ing some to tape. I never do much EQ'ing to tape though. If you have to do a lot of either compression or Eq'ing that is a sign that you need to either change your gainstage, change your mic or mic placement, retune the drums, or change the amp tone. After years of recording many of the same bands and mixing their projects though, I have kind of learned what i want during mixdown and feel pretty comfortable with a certain amount of post processing to tape. Before you EQ or compress to tape though it is very important to listen to the tracks in the mix and not just cued up individually. What tone and where you put a bass guitar in the mix can drastically change the way kick drums and lower guitar frequencies sound so just blindly setting the tone of an individual sound may sound good on its own, but not with everything else. I am also extra cautious when doing this with drums since they are not so quick and easy to just setup and retrack in the event that you have to retrack for one reason or another.

[djui5]

exactely xstatic. If you work in the same room every day..and know how that room sound's...and know how the mic's your using are going to sound..and you feel like you need to EQ to tape..then fine....do it. But remember that if someone else is going to mix it in another studio, you probably shouldn't EQ to tape. Compressing to tape is a different story for me. I compress to tape if I can, usually vocals and bass guitar. I do this to keep them under control while tracking to get good level to tape. Especially vocals, I don't hit them too hard..just hard enough to get some good steady level to tape.