need help in selecting recording mixer

**tingkumajique** · 10-02-2003, 04:43 AM

Okay guys. I really need your help on this one. Hope you all can give suggestions & opinions on this

My church is finally going digital recording and i'm in charge of putting up a system and also on a really tight budget.

What we're basically planning is a multitrack system (16 channels at least) on a macintosh... The soundcard of choice would be the m-audio delta 1010 and software would either be digital performer 4 or logic. (any suggestions on which is better?)

Now the big headache i have is which mixer i would use to tweak the levels before recording into the hard drive. Do i need a mixer with direct outputs or with lots of auxes?

Somebody suggested the Yamaha O2R for mixing & balancing... Would it make the cut? We are looking @ an older version O2R version 2.

HELP!!

what should i look out for?

thanx : )

**tingkumajique** · 10-02-2003, 04:45 AM

oh yea... just wondering... the O2R manual said that it could hook up with a protools system...

can it also be hooked up to a Motu or Logic?

thanx again, really appreciate it

**Clueless** · 10-02-2003, 06:44 AM

If you're considering the O2R for mixing and balancing, it means you have enough of a budget to look at the Midas Venice 240. I'm still getting used to mine (I used Mackies for the longest time...probably too long), and I have to say that sonically its like somebody opened all the doors and windows and let the fresh air in. Amazing stuff.

Anyway, you can read the reviews, etc., but you should evaluate. I got a good price from Rich at soundbroker.com. There are also occaisional deals to be had on ebay. Best of luck!

**cmchamp** · 10-02-2003, 07:04 AM

If you're going to be making adjustments on the fly, the learning curve on a digital board, especially the 02R is really long. I'd stick with an analog board, or at least a digital board with an analog layout. Personal experience with the 02R. . . Don't like it.
Yes, I believe it should interface as a workstation with either Logic or DP. Should give SW a call on that one to make certain.
If you're only working with 16 tracks, you could start with an Allen & Heath MixWiz 16:2. If you're planning on growing to more tracks later, plan ahead.
The MixWiz should run you between 950 and 1k USD.
Remember you also need a mic splitter.
Another board recommendation would be the Crest XEight-RT series boards.
C.

**xstatic** · 10-02-2003, 08:59 AM

I too would look for an analog console instead of a digital one for one pass tracking sessions. If you can get yourself around $3800, I would look at a Midas Venice for sure. I have several of them, and they are amazing little consoles. They will outperform the Mackie, Behringer Soundcraft boards in that price range in every aspect. If you go with a Venice, I would really try to get the 320 instead of the 240. This will allow for a little future expansion. Give Sweetwater a call, and if they can't help on that front, drop me a line. Good luck

Rob.

**Ted** · 10-02-2003, 09:16 AM

We can certainly help on the mixers front, although we're not Midas dealers so we wouldn't be able to get a Venice to you (although I've heard nothing but good things about them).

Since you have the Delta 1010, a digital mixer would probably not be the best choice for you. I'd look for one with either lots of direct outputs or multitrack busses, or a combination of both.

I'd second the recommendation for the MixWizard 16:2 if the Midas boards are out of your price range. It has direct outs all sixteen channels and four-band EQ on each channel, which is unusual in its price range. Another one that people often overlook is the Soundcraft Spirit M12, which is even less than the Allen & Heath...it's only go twelve mic inputs, but each has direct outs, and the preamps and EQ are certainly as good or better than anything else in its price range.

-Ted

**tingkumajique** · 10-02-2003, 11:55 AM

wow... you guys are amazing!! thanx a million!

will check up on your suggestions and keep you all posted...

you all will still be here to help if i do need any rite?

thanx again!javascript:smilie('

')

**tingkumajique** · 10-05-2003, 06:34 PM

hey guys,

it's me again... wanna say thanx for all yer inputs... a few questions and updated info though...

what does a mic splitter do? does it do like a 1in multiple out kinda thingy?

in our system, we're having a patchbay that splits signals from the FOH to the recording section. would it be sufficient?

i have decided to go analogue in this... (for the record, somebody wanted to sell us a O2R VII)

but with an analogue mixer, i would need a multi-in card on my mac rite?

besides the M-audio i was looking at, i'm considering the MOTU 24 i/o... anybody has any comments on those? how would they fair compared to using 4 MOTU 828 MKIIs?

thanx again... : )

**xstatic** · 10-06-2003, 12:47 PM

Go with the MOTU over any M Audio any day of the week

**danhazer** · 10-10-2003, 10:08 AM

I read all these posts and I am confused.

Firstly tingkumajique, why would you need 4 MOTU 2408 MKII's? Secondly, to contrast Xstatic, the MOTU gives no significant improvement over M-Audio Delta 1010 as far as sound quality and it is more expensive. The advantage with MOTU comes in when you start using TDIF and ADAT I/O. So a MOTU 2408 is best used with a digital console (like a Tascam DM-24). The MOTU 24I or 24I/0 is the best choice when you are planning to use an analogue console and you are splitting and signal either by direct out or splitter device. I would never recommend running multiple M-Audio systems (I.E. two Delta 1010's) in the same system. You are asking for trouble doing that.

Thanks,

Dan

**xstatic** · 10-10-2003, 12:03 PM

You are right about the MOTU not having a significant improvement over the M audio converters. However, IMHO, the A/D and D/A does sound better on the MOTU units. Even the older MK2 2408's sound better to me. It may not be significant on a single channel of conversion, but added up over 24 tracks or more this small difference does become pretty major. Then of course you do have all the other features that come with the MOTU, as well as the ability to run them as purely outboard converters which allows you to use a card like a Hammerfall in conjunction with them if you want. In my opinion, this all far outweighs the cost difference.

**tingkumajique** · 10-10-2003, 05:01 PM

thanks guys...

i was thinking of going for the 24io at first... but was debating on either that or the MOTU 828 mkII, not the 2408... reason for getting three or four MOTU 828s is just to equal the total number of input/output the MOTU 24io has...

828 has optical ins and it's firewire based, which gives the flexibility of mobility.

but wanna know, is there an advantage of firewire over PCI slots other than that? stability, sonic quality etc.?

thanx again!!

**Ted** · 10-13-2003, 10:36 AM

is there an advantage of firewire over PCI slots other than that? stability, sonic quality etc.?

There's not necessarily an advantage either way in terms of stability. In terms of sonic quality, whether you go PCI or Firewire doesn't affect the sound at all. In your case in particular, the 24io's converters are a little better than those in the 828mkII, which are identical to those in the 2480mkIII.

Incidentally, I just got back from AES and saw, among other things, MOTU's new version of the 896, which uses Cue Mix DSP (like the PCI424-based systems and the new 828) and also is capable of 192kHz operation. Pretty cool...

-Ted

**tingkumajique** · 10-17-2003, 02:48 AM

hey ted,

thanx for the input.

will be travelling down to singapore to check out the MOTU systems.

can the MOTU 828s be daisy chained? will there be a latency problem if i do that?

how does audiodesk compare to digital performed? i will not be doing any midi sequencing and it's just strictly audio.

thanx again

**Ted** · 10-17-2003, 07:52 AM

Yes, you can chain multiple 828mkII's together, and no, there won't be a latency problem if you do so.

AudioDesk is an older version of Digital Performer with no MIDI capabilities. It works fine for a lot of people, but if you want the most up-to-date audio features and upgradeability you'd probably want to go with Digital Performer. No harm in trying out Audio Desk first, though, since it's included with the 828mkII...

-Ted