Audiophile 2496 for homerecording

[skroeder]

hello.. I bought an audiophile 2496 to record musicon my pc.. now i wonder if i should by a mixerboard to put between the microphones and the sound card and wat cable i should use.. cause the 2496 aint got no XLR..

I´d be very greatful if anyone got a clue how to build a nice rig out of this..


// Jakob

[af-TimOBrien]

Yes, you want at least a small mixer if nothing else to keep you from jumping behind your computer all the time changing wires (and of course to get XLRs, preamps, phantom power for condenser mics and maybe even some EQ.)

Even a small Behringer or Yamaha mixer is better than nothing....

Be sure to get a good primer book... check out (and don't be insulted by the title):

Home Recording for Musicians for Dummies
by Jeff Strong
$15 at amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books
(they also have a set for $25 with "Home Recording Basics - Ultimate Tech Start Series")

I looked through it in the bookstore and wished I'd had a book like that when I started....

[BubbaFreaktree2]

probably the best thing for you to do would be to get the smallest Mackie VLZ-pro. don't get their cheaper line stuff, it sucks. The VLZ-pro line is actually useable.

Way better than little Behinger mixers. I know, I have owned/used both.

The Mackie has decent enough preamps. You need preamps to raise the signal level of the microphones before going into the card. And if you are using condenser mics, you need phantom power feeds to those mics, which the Mackie will provide. Also, you need to hear yourself, and the Mackie will have a headphone jack and two separate audio out jacks so you can send out to speakers.

To get the best signal quality, take the direct out of the Mackie channels 1 and 2, and go straight into the computer. Those are unbalanced lines, so you will just need a simple Hosa brand cable that goes from 1/4" to RCA jack.

You could get a little $69 Berhinger mixer, but your music will suck as a result. I have one in a closet for the occasional need to do a remote headphone feed. But I wouldn't track audio on that thing, it simply sucks (and I have a recent model one).

On a random note, if you are using ribbon mics (which I doubt you are), don't feed them phantom power, you could blow them up.

[skroeder]

Thank you for your replys..
i thought of getting a berhinger for ca. 100 $ or something.. i saw the MACKIE 1202-VLZ PRO and it costed 4000 sek (swedish krones). should be around 400$.. is there any cheaper alternative that doesnt have that many inputs but doesnt suck?
Cause i dont need that many channels.. i need 2 or four ( if cheap) ..

Thanks

[Joe Hannigan]

You say you need 2 or 4 channels.....for NOW. <G>

Trust Bubba on this.....consider getting the Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro, even if you have to skip a few other goodies. (They are also listed on EBAY, and they really don't "Wear out" much, if at all...they're built like tanks. I wouldn't be too scared of a used model, at least to get you started.)

They are the Swiss-army knife of mixers (esp the 1202) and are an incredible bang for the buck. Youi'll probably end up using it as the heart of you fledgling studio, and you'll be coming back here in a few months thanking Bubba for such great advice.

The only thing I disagree with Bubba is their "Decent" preamps. IMHO, they are FANTASTIC preamps, and I defy you to hear any difference with anything in a similar class (and even most above.) For about $350 USD, you'll get four incredible mic pre's, a control room interface, headphone amp, and a fistful of line in's. (Trust me, you'll fill these up fast...)

You could spend ten times that $$$ on a stereo mic pre alone, and I doubt you'd hear a difference anyway. I use the Mackie line of mixers for everything, including audiophile recording. (Ok, I admit I take the signal out directly out of the mic pre's and go to my A/D converters, but they still sound great....like NOTHING at all..)

The rest of the mixer is wonderful as well, and quieter than anything else you'll find, for the $-range and beyond.

[BubbaFreaktree2]

look into gettting one used. Har du eBay i Sverige?

you will find the features very handy. trust me. over time, you will start running more and more wires in and out of it as you start seeing how convenient it is.

let's say you are a person who uses a "POD" guitar amp simulator box. you could have that plugged in *all the time* on a stereo line channel. so whenever the mood strikes, just pick up your guitar, adjust the levels and you're off.

the trick with the Mackie is this: it has legitimately low-noise, low distortion, and decent mic pres. The Behringer is noisey, clouds the sound, and stinks.

Life is too short to stink.

[skroeder]

Well, Thank you all very much.. I got a used MACKIE 1202-VLZ PRO at a musicstore here in sweden. I wonder how to get the best signal quality from the mixer cause my audiophile 2496 aint got no XLR and only RCA. Ang I heard that XLR is less noisy than RCA.. Maybe i can get XLR on another soundcard-cable.. The one you plug on the back of the soundcard and looks like a COM-port ..

Well, whatever.. I think when I get the mixer i can start thinkin about the cables..



And another thing.. you guys seem to bee having something against Behringer.. Is it the same on microphones? I bought a Shure C606 to record.. Costed only around 30 $..

[Joe Hannigan]

Ok, you don't know about Behringer, eh? They have been reverse-engineering products for years. (Shamelessly, too). Mackie sued them several years ago for such blatant knock-offs. I believe they won, or got a judgement/settlement.

I don't know (nor do I care) about Behringer's "sound" or biz practices nowadays, but there's too many good products out there to waste my time and $$ on them. Just not worth the effort when you can buy the legitmate thing out there.

I'm loyal and committed to Mackie for many reasons (mainly the cost/quality/features ratio) but ever since the days of Tapco in the 70's and 80s, Greg Mackie has been a maverick that has put good solid, affordable tools of production in the hands of the average working musician/engineer. Granted, they seem to be always getting too big for their britches again, but they have been there for me since my first mixers with them. Service and customer support has always been good, too, sterling, IMHO.

Mackie has been my secret weapon since day 1, allowing me to deliver many incredible recordings to clients, without blowing my budget on ridiculous, overpriced, exotic preamps that I for one, can't hear the difference in anyway. I'm not impressed with needlessly expensive gear anyway, I'm impressed with getting the job done with the highest quality, and for me that's Mackie. Instead of a $2k mic preamp, I spend that money elsewhere.... and you know what? Not a SOUL has ever complained, much less heard any difference.

What's in happening in FRONT of the mic is much more important anyway.

[Bops2000]

I don't think you will have a problem running rca to rca.
I have a Berhringer board as well as an old studiomaster with rca outs. The only issue, I think you are talking about is line hum, but, I ain't no expert either; should be negligable for your applications.
PS I would have ran the Behringer with a simple dual in card.

[BubbaFreaktree2]

don't worry too much about XLR vs. RCA vs. 1/4".

here's what you need to know:

XLR is typically "balanced". there is a positive voltage, a negative voltage, and a ground. the signal gets sent down the balanced wire, then the receiving device (mixer, soundcard, whatever) reverses the polarity of one of the voltages. so the signal strength gets doubled, and any noise on the line gets cancelled out because it's now out of phase with itself.

if you don't understand any of this, just remember that balanced cables have a better ability to reject external noise. but if you are using a short cable run (under 10 feet) usually this won't be any problem. in fact many high-end stereo buyers purposely run unbalanced lines for subtle audio reasons.

many of the mackie outputs say bal/unbal. this means you can send out either kind of signal. so just get a cable that has a pair of 1/4" jacks on one side, and a pair of RCA jacks on the other side and run that wire pair into your audiophile 24/96. actually get two pairs, so you can send the signal from the soundcard back out to the mixer so you can listen to your stuff you recorded.

this is how you should wire your setup:

put your microphone into channel one on the mixer. and put something else on channel two, or nothing.

look on the back of the mixer...see how there is something called "direct out"? it is a 1/4" jack. send that signal to your soundcard. this way you will bypass the internal summing architecture of the mackie mixer and get a cleaner signal to the soundcard. so you will need a wire that has 1/4" unbalanced on one side and male rca on the other side. get the cable that comes in a pair of this (Hosa makes one for about $8 USD). you will use the send one on something else as you get more adventurous.

so then you need to get the sound back out to the mackie so you can hear it. so hook up the pair of RCA's outs from the Audiophile 24/96 into channels 9/10 line input on the Mackie (1/4" male jacks on that side of things). channels 9/10 is a grouped stereo channel. this is great for this purpose, because you can control the volume of your entire playback mix with one knob.

this leaves your monitor out and control room out and headphone out jacks free. so you have three listening options off the Mackie for playback/mixing...pretty cool!

once you start getting into recording more than 2 channels at once, you will need to abandon the idea of taking channels 1 and 2 "direct out" into the audiophile, since the audiophile only has two analog inputs. so at that point you will need to go out of the master outputs of the Mackie as a stereo feed into your soundcard. this sacrifices some sound quality, but not too bad of a compromise.

don't let these words like "compromise" scare you. this stuff kicks the crap out of Berhinger and you will be getting seriously good results.

i'm not sure about your $30 mic thing. it's probably a cheap "dynamic" mic. dynamic mics use a magnetic element in them. they are cheap and durable, making them popular in live sound situations.

but think about stepping up to a condenser mic. you will typically capture many more subtleties and realness. it won't sound so clunky.

in a big pro studio they typically have dynamics and condensers, because sometimes you actually want a less sensitive mic like a dynamic.

but if your a "one mic" guy, make it a condenser.

check out Musiciansfriend.com and get the MXL 990 for $60 USD or the MXL 990/991 mic package for $100 USD.
those are both condenser mics. i think you will be shocked at how good they sound compared to your $30 mic. they both require "phantom power", which the Mackie has (you turn it on using a switch on the back of the 1202)

don't worry about the fact that you "wasted your money" on the $30 mic. you can always use it as a hack-around mic. and if you are recording someone, you can mount it on your desk and use it as a "talkback" mic to commicate with the person you are recording.

there are now a million cheap condenser mics out there. but i can personally verify that the 990 is legitimately good. some cheap ones sound dull and boring. this one has lots of air and life to it.

the 991 is a "small diaphragm" condenser mic, that could find good uses on acoustic guitar recording. in fact recording the acoustic guitar in stereo using the 991 on the neck joint and the 990 on the bridge will produce excellent results. but the 990 for $60 comes with a really nice shockmount, which is very, very helpful for elimintating low rumbles that can get in to your recording (trust me, they come from footsteps, cars 2 blocks away, someone closing a door 50 feet away, etc.). so it's kind of a toss up. if your feeling the wallet-pinch right now, just the 990, it's the better of the two mics, and comes with the shockmount and what appears to be a nice metal case.

i'm glad you got 1202, you made the right decision. now get the 990 or the 990/991 and finish the job.

this way you will actually be able to do something good, instead of some sucky beginner thing.

also, it's a time saver. you'll save hours that would have been wasted trying to fix bad recordings from the Berhigner and the $30 mic.

here's the link:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/...d=tp?q=mxl+990

[Joe Hannigan]

What a great post, Bubba....awesome, and you gave him everything he needs to know to get it all going.

I'm glad to hear good things about the MXL 990/991. Sounds like it's worth checking out!

[BubbaFreaktree2]

the 990 is mind-blowingly good for the price. the 991 is kind of a tag-along mic, but still good. actually amazingly good for the additional price, but the 990 is such a killer that you get spoiled!

if you already have a small-d condenser, then get the 990 because you get the shockmount and save some $

but for the guy from Sweden. it looks like he's never used a large diaphragm or small diaphragm condenser. his only experience with mics has probably been talking or singing into a handheld dynamic like a Shure SM-58.

the detail he will get out of these mics, and the ability to do a dual-miced recording with the two mics will be a head trip for him!

it's like he's only ridden a bike, and now will be using a car. not a mercedes, but a real car nonetheless.

[skroeder]

well.. thank you buba for your great post(s).. I guess i'll have great use for it (when ive read through it). And I even think that my setup is gonna be more than a cheap demo recording rig, and that - just because of your help. The MXL 990/991 really sounds like its worth to be checked out.. but me and my band been recording with an behringer eurorack 8 ch. and an AGK mic and that actually sounds great too..
Well I'll see what I can get when ive got a little bit more money..

[BubbaFreaktree2]

how can you record a band with one mic?

also, if you are recording a full band, that implies a tracking room and a control room, cabling, talkback abilities, etc.

i don't get how all this fits in with your little setup.

[skroeder]

well.. I dont record a band with one mic.. we had.. I think 5 mics..