mixer to pc, how to?

[LelandMulder]

Ok, here's my deal, I want to record synth lines using a mixer going from the sound card out to tape in on mixer, tape out on mixer to sound card in. This way I can record synth lines made in the pc with soft synths and record them back in, so I can record knob movement (cutoff, etc...) in real time, otherwise most stay static and can't have a line with say fm7 with the cutoff going in and out. I hooked up a friends mixer to my pc, and had lots of trouble getting the levels right. Setting the computer and mixer to 0dB output would work, but this is way too much power going to the speakers... and they have to be set to 1 for volume : ). The problem here is that I want the signal going back into the pc from the mixer to be the same level as the signal going from the computer to the mixer> if everything isn't at 0dB the signal going back in will be much less... Is there an easier way to do this? Anyone have a different technique, or a solution for my problem?

[DimitriDL]

Sorry, but you don't wanna do that, man. The last thing you wanna do is to run your synth lines out to an analog mixer, tweak them with it, and then convert them back into digital domain again. That's a very unconventional approach and it will cause the sonic quality of your synth to suffer. If it's a soft synth, it has no reason to ever go outside of your computer. Better figure out how to do automation in your sequencer.

[This message has been edited by DimitriDL (edited 02-06-2003).]

[LelandMulder]

Great, thanks for the good advice. So I should probably forget the whole mixer idea altogether and buy an interface?

[DimitriDL]

Well, that depeonds on what you wanna do. If you only plan to create synthetic music on your computer and never plan to record any external audio source (like mic or guitar or acoustic drums), you don't necesarily need to buy any extra hardware. You can do it all in software using just a basic sound card. The only thing I'd worry about that in that case is your monitoring chain. You might want to get a nice sound card with just 2 outputs (like Audiophile or Echo Mia, all under $200) and a pair of decent monitors so you can hear what you are doing accurately.

If, on the other hand, you are planning on recording external sources, then you'll need to do some careful shopping. Eventually, for the most flexibility, your signal chain will need to be like this:

Mic -> External mic preamp -> Patchbay (a device with a bunch of inputs and outputs that splits each signal in two)

From the patchbay, each channel/mic is branched out in two directions: the sound card, and the monitoring mixer.

This is done so that the sound card records pure signal from the mic/synth/drum module/whatever, and the same time the signal goes into the mixer, through which you can hear it and adjust each channel's level/EQ, just for monitoring (hearing everything while recording it). That is especially important if you are ever to record more than one instrument at the same time.

The output from the sound card should also go into a stereo channel on the mixer, just so you can hear audio when you are mixing stuff in software.

Do not use your analog mixer for mixing down tracks. The only way you can efficiently use an analog mixer with a computer is to use it as your monitoring mixer. All final mixdown should be done in your sequencer software.

Good luck and have fun!

[LelandMulder]

Thanks for the advice. However, I already have an audiophile 2496 sound card and a pair of decent monitors. The main thing I'm trying to do is record my software synths going out of the pc and back in so I can record filter changes, etc... in real time using the mouse. Some vst softsynths have automation built in to the filters, which is exactly what I need, but a lot don't and so I'm limited to having static synth lines with no filter changes in production... I've learned that the mixer idea I had of going tape in/tape out to do this is not a good idea and doesn't really work (loss of volume and quality). Maybe there is a software program that could help by routing the output from the soundcard and making the pc think that this is also the input?

[DimitriDL]

Just out of curiosity, what outboard unit were you using with the mixer to make filter changes?

It seems to me that to accomplish what you wish to do you don't really need to re-route your sound outside of your computer/sequencer in any way.

Here's an idea: use a VST filter plugin on the output of your VST soft synth (one that doesnt have a built in filter).

Are you using Cubase?

[LelandMulder]

Maybe I should just be asking this question instead... Is it possible to say, play 8 bars of a midi track routed to a vst instrument and record this while it's playing to an audio track instead of using the export feature in cubase? This way I could record say the filter 'cutoff' and any changes in real time...

[DimitriDL]

You should investigate the possibilites of parameter automation in your VST synths. That way, your parameters will change automatically as the song progresses. Unfortunately I don't know Cubase very well, so I couldn't tell you how to do it there. But you should be able to do it.

That way you'll only need to define your parameter envelopes once, for the whole length of the track, and every time you export the song as audio they will be applied.

At least, that's how it works in Sonar, which is what I'm more familiar with.

[This message has been edited by DimitriDL (edited 02-11-2003).]