double tracking guitars

[laboroflove]

In band's like rage against the machine or danzig,van halen(early).Where do they pan the guitrar's to sound so full and big?
Anybody know if their double tracking the same part over and over.?
I fell my weakest part of recording is the guitars.I have tried panning the guitar left half way to 3/4 wide then send the reverb opposite channel same position and still not content.
Any suggestion would be appreciated..

[revert979]

Generally, I prefer to pan my guitars hard left and hard right. I think this especially works when going for a big sound. The more centered you put them the less space they will have, thus not sounding as full. Depending on what you're doing, centered guitars can step on other things in the mix as well (drums, vox, etc.).

Just always double up whatever you do. For most rock type songs you want one rhythm guitar hard left, and another hard right. Doing a lead part? Try doubling that up too, and panning them. It's certainly easy to get over zealous and over track guitars, but I figure, it's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

I also like my guitars dry, without verb. Lead stuff can benefit from a verb or delay, but the foundation, the rhythm, for me needs to be dry.

But also, it starts with a good sound from the get go. If you can't find something you're happy with, doubling the guitars will just double your hate for them. Good guitar, good head, good cab, good mic (or two) = good sound.

[TimmyP1955]

I have tried panning the guitar left half way to 3/4 wide then send the reverb opposite

Mono reverb? That's a problem. A stereo reverb gives the instrument space. A mono reverb makes it sound as though it's in a well.

[laboroflove]

that early van halen stuff was like that wasnt it ?with the reverb on one side....

[Bluesman48]

I almost always double my guitar parts, depending of course on the song and what I want to say musically. As a general rule I pan my bed rhythm guitars hard L/R. Very seldom do I go past 9 o'clock L or 3 o'clock R. Usually track without any effects save for tremelo, or mono chorus. That leaves your 9 and 3 pan position open to create a palette for your lead tracks. I usually reserve at least two tracks for lead. Notice I used the words "almost and usually", The point being use your ears to dictate the sound you are after. Music is a creative process, there aren't any mistakes, more creative differences if you will.

[TimmyP1955]

that early van halen stuff was like that wasnt it ?with the reverb on one side....

Big stereo reverb. One of the best on any rock album ever.

[AlexDrummerVanOver]

I Am with the others on this. If you are wanting A Big huge sound But Want it Tight Double Track The Rhythm Dry with no effects and pan hard left and hard right. That also applies to your reverb problem. With a Double track the recording is different in the left than the right and that creates small time anomalies between the tracks, this gives you a wider sound. So if you make the left dry and the right with reverb and not that much dry in the wet track than if set properly you can achieve a sound reminiscent of the Van Halen Record. You can also achieve this by Micing the cab and then placing a room mic in a different room so there is a natural reverb that is delayed then Pan hard left and hard right. They're a bucket full of ways to do that. You just have to have a descent acoustical space, but in my Experience I prefer the Dry Hard left and hard right double tracked method, that way has never really done me wrong. It also depends on the material too.

[Moshfists]

Yep, if you double your guitars, bass, vocals, etc. it usually makes 'em sound bigger and more spacious. You do have to pay attention to detail and play the parts as tight and clean as possible. This will make the overall sound easier to edit and mix as well as sounding huge. I agree that you should use very little reverb with a pretty healthy pre- delay to keep everything cleaner. What I usually do is record the first guitar with one cabinet and two mics (watch your phase cancellation issues), then double the track with slightly (slightly!) different EQ settings. Hard pan each guitar's two tracks (GTR 1: both channels hard left, GTR 2: both hard right) and then stand back, 'cause the sound will blow your head off! I've never tried anything like VocAlign Pro to get the tracks super-tight, but it might cure flammming issues. On the other hand, it might defeat the natural chorus/doubling effect. Has anyone used VA Pro on guitars for this purpose?

[TimmyP1955]

What I usually do is record the first guitar with one cabinet and two mics (watch your phase cancellation issues), then double the track with slightly (slightly!) different EQ settings. Hard pan each guitar's two tracks (GTR 1: both channels hard left, GTR 2: both hard right)

What this gives you is just two guitars, neither of which has any space. Try panning the mics of each guitar, so that each has a bit of space.

[kev6string]

Although i am mainly a country artist as well as a lead guitarist i do rock it up a bit. I have recorded my sons Christian metal band as well as run live sound for them. that being said recording wise ...i like to double both the rhythm guitar and the lead guitar 4 channels total and everything mono tracks...i pan one guitarx2 50%left - the otherx2 50% right (only sometimes little more) but def pan well enough to give room for the other voicings in the mix or it will be muddy mush...at times a "sparing" ping pong delay can waken up the lead guitar giving it some pretty tasteful space...reverb is always used very very sparingly and only on one of the the 2 parts keeping one channel dry...also something to keep in mind when you think you have enough gain saturation or "distortion overdrive" even with rock...back it off some more than you think you like so it does cut through( remember any more stages of eq,effects etc. will add more gain and noise in the signal path )...make sure you EQ the guitar where the guitar is in the sound spectrum...too many young kids crank the bass and highs with no mids and drive thinking it sounds like the record now big and fat...and wonder why they can't hear their guitar...low end fatness is what a bass guitar is for. that's my opinion and my tricks others may vary...

if you would like to hear a neat example of effective ping pong usage to fatten up a single lead guitarx2 (one dry) check out
"CHEROKEE ROSE" www.reverbnation.com/kevhenderson
the lead guitar was an american standard Telecaster thru a mesa boogie rectoverb 50 mic'd with a sm57 45% angle midway from dust cover to edge touching the screen on a Mesa and a CAD gxl2200 large condenser 2 feet away facing straight...thru a Mackie 24x8 into an Alesis HD24 adat to Presonus Light Pipe into Sonor 8.5 producer using the VST pluggins for any effects the acoustic was 2 tracks panned 50 right 50 left slight verb on one