Latency is kililng me.. Can someone tell me what I need to upgrade? PLEASE!!!!

[Elitethatsme]

OK guys, thanks in advance.

Basically I have 2 main issues. I am willing to buy whatever I have to buy in order to fix these Issues, I just want to make sure im spending $ on the right things.

1 = Latency. I can not trigger audio samples via midi without a noticable amount of latency (yes i've tried adjusting the audio buffer/latency compensation settings). For instance, in reason i can't trigger drums without being horribly off beat lol.

Issue 2 after I give my setup:

Dell Dimension 8250 512 Ram, plenty of HD space.
Midiman USB MIDISPORT 8x8/s
Digi 001 Rack
Protools 5.3.1 and the Wave Drivers that go with it.

Now, the 2nd issue is not being able to use certain plugins in real time with Protools such as autotune, etc. I tried to upgrade to a newer version of Protools/ASIO drivers but then I encountered all sorts of new problems like Cakewalk was not recognizing the sound card/drivers at all.. and my internet browser audio would conk out after a few seconds.

Any help would really be appreciated!!! LIke i said, i'd be willing to buy some new stuff... But for instance.. I dont want to go buy a new computer if the Digi001 is the real problem.. Or vice versa you know?

Thank you!!

-Elite

www.elitethatsme.com

[RawknRoll]

are u using firewire for midi//usb???? or a midi cable.


Also in pro tool sthere is a low latency mode.


you need MORE RAM!

what speed is your processor?

We will all request more information about your computer before telling you what exactly you need.

[Smithcok]

You need a faster processor, much more ram (at least 2 GB recommended), and lower you buffer to at least 128 (if not 64).

[5454stevef]

OK guys, thanks in advance.

Basically I have 2 main issues. I am willing to buy whatever I have to buy in order to fix these Issues, I just want to make sure im spending $ on the right things.

1 = Latency. I can not trigger audio samples via midi without a noticable amount of latency (yes i've tried adjusting the audio buffer/latency compensation settings). For instance, in reason i can't trigger drums without being horribly off beat lol.

Issue 2 after I give my setup:

Dell Dimension 8250 512 Ram, plenty of HD space.
Midiman USB MIDISPORT 8x8/s
Digi 001 Rack
Protools 5.3.1 and the Wave Drivers that go with it.

Now, the 2nd issue is not being able to use certain plugins in real time with Protools such as autotune, etc. I tried to upgrade to a newer version of Protools/ASIO drivers but then I encountered all sorts of new problems like Cakewalk was not recognizing the sound card/drivers at all.. and my internet browser audio would conk out after a few seconds.

Any help would really be appreciated!!! LIke i said, i'd be willing to buy some new stuff... But for instance.. I dont want to go buy a new computer if the Digi001 is the real problem.. Or vice versa you know?

Thank you!!

-Elite

www.elitethatsme.com

Might add that, if you spring for a new computer, it almost for certain will have Vista on it - which means the version of PT you are using won't work, so you'd have to change to XP, which is not necessarily a bad thing, just a hassle. Either that or upgrade PT to PT8, which won't run on the 001.

Honestly, since you say you don't mind spending some money, in that case I'd ditch it all and get a new computer, along with 003 or 003r and PT 8. You could look at Digi's site to see if there's a hardware swap for the 001, don't know about that.

True, older things like Cakewalk that don't support ASIO won't work, but after you've played with PT 8 for a while you won't miss it at all - you could keep the old setup for things like that.

The most glaring deficiency for the current situation is inadequate RAM - as Rawk and Smithcok have pointed out. That machine is old enough you may have to mail-order it. I believe that machine tops out at 2G.

SF

[Rad]

Yes, you definitely need a machine with more RAM, 1-2 GB as an absolute minimum.

Regarding Vista - try to avoid it at all and any cost. This OS is not well designed for usage with digital audio, and most people find it very, very problematic as far as studio audio devices go. This is not to say that it's impossible, but it's way harder. However, also don't assume you can get a Vista computer and then change to XP yourself, because many new hardware components for Vista actually DON"T have drivers for XP. Buy a computer with a PREINSTALLED Windows XP. For example, DELL laptops allow you to choose which OS you want - Vista, XP, or even Linux. This ensures you have all the drivers.

[Elitethatsme]

so it seems the consensus is more RAM. To answer some questions im not sure about the processor speed i'll check it when I get home tonight, the midi interface is connected via USB and then the keyboard is connected to the interface via midi cable.

Two qestions:

1. Will a simple ram upgrade do it? Or is the processor more of a contributer to latency.

2. Is there a real need to upgrade my digi001? If i do upgrade my computer I'd rather not have to upgrade both. Unless it's just somethin like add more RAM + upgrade digi01. you know?

[Rad]

I don't know this model of Dell but if it came with 512M RAM I bet the processor is not the newest either.
I recommend a PC upgrade. For the Digi, I am not sure you need to upgrade unless you are unhappy with the quality.

[5454stevef]

so it seems the consensus is more RAM. To answer some questions im not sure about the processor speed i'll check it when I get home tonight, the midi interface is connected via USB and then the keyboard is connected to the interface via midi cable.

Two qestions:

1. Will a simple ram upgrade do it? Or is the processor more of a contributer to latency.

2. Is there a real need to upgrade my digi001? If i do upgrade my computer I'd rather not have to upgrade both. Unless it's just somethin like add more RAM + upgrade digi01. you know?

1. It's hard to say without trying it. The thing is, RAM is so cheap there's no reason not to max it out and see what happens before you try anything else. You may be pleasantly surprised at how well other things also run with more room.

2. Processor speed contributes a great deal. The plug-in or instrument can only go as fast the processor is capable of executing instructions. Since it's a linear thing, the more things you add the more work is being generated by each process, and something has to give at some point.

My setup is pretty old also. I have a purpose-built box with an ASUS motherboard, P4 at 3 ghz w/ 2 G of ram. It's showing its age, but will run PT 8 adequately for my purposes, at least until I begin using the extra tracks PT allows. Latency on this machine is not horrible as long as I'm careful not to load the session up with VI's and heavy plug-ins - setting the buffer size as low as possible when recording helps a lot. Depending on how much stuff you have going on, the minimum feasible setting will vary.

Having said that, one thing I never do is try to run plug-ins in real time on a track that I'm recording on. Using the "low latency" option, which is actually just monitoring from the input, precludes this anyway.

I'm not sure why you'd want to run something like Auto-Tune in real time, can you explain why you want to do that?

The main reason you'd want to upgrade the 001 is if you foresee wanting to upgrade Pro Tools beyone 6.4, which is the last version that supports the 001
The fact that the 001 doesn't use ASIO may also have something to do with the latency issue, I couldn't say for sure.

There are a lot of housekeeping things to be aware of that will help also. For example, I've found that surprisingly, even when a channel is "off", that is, the "off/dyn" button is set to off, any plug-ins that are active in that channel are still consuming resources. De-activate them too, along with any that are on channels that may be muted throughout the mix. You can bounce to audio from VI's and deactivate them, which will free up cpu cycles.

Good luck.

SF

[Elitethatsme]

my processor is a pentium 4 2.40ghz

the plug-in thing is less of an issue. Its more the Latency on Midi triggering samples in reason that is a huge issue for me... makes it impossible to do a drum pattern with my keyboard... tired of drawing out drum patterns with the mouse you know? lol

as for why I would want to use autotune live.. cuz its the best way to use it!!!! so great for coming up with melodies, espeically ifu cant sing!

I dont use it tpain style but its a great way to just come up with a melody, using your voice as an instrument

[JrummerJ]

the plug-in thing is less of an issue. Its more the Latency on Midi triggering samples in reason that is a huge issue for me... makes it impossible to do a drum pattern with my keyboard... tired of drawing out drum patterns with the mouse you know? lol

Basically your machine is underpowered for what you are trying to do. You say it is not a plugin thing, but it is:

1) Reason (and almost all virtual instruments) uses cpu and RAM
2) Your DAW uses cpu and RAM
2) Running at low buffer uses more cpu than high buffer settings

Therefore, you at least need to add RAM, and I would guess that the whole machine could use replacing. Even on my macbook pro with dual 2.2Ghz processors and 4GB of RAM I get occasional cpu errors in Pro Tools when I am trying to record at 128 sample buffer and I have a 1+GB kit loaded up. I can reduce the chance of this happening by making sure fewer plugins are running, reducing the size of the kit in Superior until I am ready to bounce, and turning off stuff like wireless cards, etc.

J

[5454stevef]

my processor is a pentium 4 2.40ghz

the plug-in thing is less of an issue. Its more the Latency on Midi triggering samples in reason that is a huge issue for me... makes it impossible to do a drum pattern with my keyboard... tired of drawing out drum patterns with the mouse you know? lol

as for why I would want to use autotune live.. cuz its the best way to use it!!!! so great for coming up with melodies, espeically ifu cant sing!

I dont use it tpain style but its a great way to just come up with a melody, using your voice as an instrument

It's not exactly clear to me if you're using Reason stand-alone or Rewired to PT - I can see why, if you're running both of them at the same time, you're getting massive delays, with only 512 M of ram, there would almost have to be some disk paging going on. If you're using Rewire, one possible work-around could be to not use Reason until after you have recorded your midi tracks, and use something more efficient while you are recording. If you're using Reason mainly as a drum module, getting your hands on a different drum package might help a lot - Reason loads all kinds of stuff into memory when you Rewire it to PT whether you are using those modules or not.

That's a nifty idea of a way to use AutoTune, I'd like to hear in greater detail what procedure you use there.

SF

[JLaw]

I wasn't clear from the thread which solution was related to audio latency and which to MIDI latency. I got past the audio latency issues by, as was suggested, maxing out my memory.
My problem is with MIDI latency. I'm running MIDI Out of an M1 (as the controller) IN to the PT 002, OUT of the 002 to IN of a Triton module. Set MIDI Thru to ON.
The system will pass MIDI to the Triton only if I set up a MIDI channel to record taking the M1 as source and the output passed to the Triton. Even in low latency mode, it's really off. Way too much latency to use.
Also the MIDI delay preference is only for playback AND if you've used a virtual instrument (I use BFD drums on an instrument channel) it seems to delay those as well so it moves BOTH the external MIDI instrument and the drums, defeating the whole purpose. Frustrating.

Any suggestions?

[XweAponX]

Now, the 2nd issue is not being able to use certain plugins in real time with Protools such as autotune, etc. I tried to upgrade to a newer version of Protools/ASIO drivers but then I encountered all sorts of new problems like Cakewalk was not recognizing the sound card/drivers at all.. and my internet browser audio would conk out after a few seconds.

[/url]www.elitethatsme.com[/url]

Cakewalk from Producer 5 and up, sees all Digi 001 interfaces. However, there is NO Low Latency Monitoring available in Sonar 5 or 7, you can only use Sonar to mix, you cannot record new tracks and monitor through the program, you have to monitor from your source, and mute out the track being recorded from the Sonar end, I've done this, and was able to get good tracks. Through Pro Tools 6.4 which is the latest PT that Digi 001 can use, there is Low Latency Monitoring... But I've also had trouble monitoring Midi, any Midi you have to send into some external synth with Midi Input, take the midi out of the Digi and plug it in to the Midi device, you should hear it from the device. If not, then there is something wrong with the Digi. But I am no expert on Midi, it has always caused me a lot of problems.

One thing I was able to do though, is I took my Sonar projects, and saved them as an OMF file and used the Digi Translator to import it into Pro Tools, that worked very well, but you only have 45 days trial for Digi Translator, I bought my Pro Tools used, so I do not have the iLok device that activates Digi Translator permanently.