Mic Pre-amp or not?

[finalcut]

Hello, I'm using a couple of nice mics, and a little compression along with some BBE at the insert of my Mackie board. The vocal sound that I'm getting is very good, as are any other sounds that I record with that set-up.
I have read many opinions on the use of mic-preamps. Many experts have written that a great board ( even a mackie ) and a good mic are all that is needed, others say that a good pre-amp is a must.
I just don't want to part with a good chunck of change to find that it was a waste.
I'm looking at the dbx 586 Dual Channel Tube Mic Preamp as well as a few others, but it is a tough call. Help!
Carl

[miketholen]

it would only be a waste if you got something inferior to what you already have, I find that a great pre can be the most useful piece of gear in your arsenal.
one of my favorites is the Telefunken tube stuff. maybe a bit expensive but well worth it.
http://www.tab-funkenwerk.com/
the new DBX stuff is garbage.
how 'bout some API's?
http://www.brentaverill.com/#apipres

[finalcut]

Thanks for the reply. I guess I just need to go listen and A/B some set-ups at the local music store. Any suggestions on good mic-pres out there in the range of about $1,000.00? Single or dual chan.

[BradLyons]

What mics are you using? I have to put 2 cents in for the Vintech 1272....it's a little over $1k but a great preamp! This 2-ch pre has a lot of presence and can be a very desierable sound. I've used this pre on drums, vocals, acoustic guitars, and even bass... love it! For the under $1k price point, you should really look at the Grace Designs 101. This is a single channel pre-amp only, very clear and pristine.... you'll be shocked at its price and sound quality.

[michaelhoddy]

I'm also of the opinion that you generally need to spend around $600 a channel or more to do noticeably better than the Mackie preamps. The dbx stuff, like so many inexpensive designs, simply doesn't get you much that the Mackie doesn't already have, besides some even-order harmonic distortion.

My picks? I agree, the Vintech 2-ch is hard to beat for the money, being basically a new Neve 1272, with some very minor component exceptions. If you want something that positively rocks on vocals, check out the Universal Audio M-610 ($1100). It's a cool tube design, great for vocals, bass, and some drum apps, but probably not as flexible on other things due to having a very specific sound.

The Grace 101 is cool if you don't want a lot of coloration...

Lastly, check out the Daking 52270 mic preamp/4-band EQ. It's a little pricier, around $1375, but I haven't heard a preamp for twice or even three times the money that has the response and punch of this thing, especially on acoustic guitars and transient-heavy program material (like drums and percussion).

Preamps bring out differing opinions and tastes like almost nothing else. One man's trash is another's treasure. Good luck!

[BradLyons]

Michael,

I couldn't agree more about how pre's really are a matter of opinion.

[tommymiller50]

I guess I'm a little late, but I'll still throw in my two cents.

Today it seems that even most medium quality boards do have quite nice preamps straight from the factory. If all your looking to do is get what the mic picks up onto tape, you're probably good to go with your Mackie.

If you're looking to enhance the signal, exotic pre's can help add "color" (read distortion), and many today will also take care of basic compression and EQ needs. I think this artistic touch and flexibility is what many are looking for in a mic pre.

In terms of real performance differences between what's in a board and what's in a $1,000 box, I think the most substantial difference is the way the pre handles impedance. This was a big issue in the old days that is now largely forgotten. Most moden boards will have an electonically balanced input that will handle darn near anything you throw at it from an ancient ribbon mic to an extremely hot line level input, all with relatively good results. Stand alone mic pres tend to be designed to expect a condenser mic on the other end of the cable, greatly changing how one would design the input. These differences do have a significant impact on the technical and artistic perfomance of the pre, though only a trained ear will likely pick it up.

Good luck. Tom

[Geeheeb]

spend the $1500 to get a Amek Neve 9098 damnit!

[Scott Gould]

The only 2 channel pre-amp under $1000 in my studio is a Peavey VMP-2. It is an all-tube signal path (4 or 5 tubes per channel) with hi & lo shelving. Pretty damned impressive for something with the Peavey name on it (it's made by their Audio Media Research subsidiary) & it makes a dandy direct box too.

Scott

[Ernest828]

Whatever you do, do not get the dbx mic pres! They are noisy and the sound is so so. What you should look into is the Grace 101 which for about $700 is kicking ***. The ART PRO pres are nice but again, they introduce some character as do all pres. I like to suggest you save your pennies and just wait to get an Avalon VT 737 SP ($2,000), a Martech ($2500) or how a Amek Neve 9098 which is beautiful for $1500.

By now you may have purchased the dbx and if thats the case, you will eventually thirst for a true mic pre. I`m not trying to insult the dbx pre`s or your decision but the sound is second rate. Mic pres and microphones will always have the most impact on your sound so I believe its better to wait till you can afford quality, than settle.

Peace,
Ernest

[cableslap]

The only mic pre I've used is a Manley two channel unit. It rocks. With an AKG Tube mic, vocals are pristine and punchy. On a Martin acoustic,with an AKG condenser, it makes me cry. I think it was around $1500. Im using a Soundcraft console and ADats

[Ernest828]

I have heard the Manley mic pre and was actually going to get it but the Avalon 737 has so much flexability, its tough to beat. (In now own two of `em.) In the future, I`ll be stepping up to some Manley gear, I`m eyeing the Vari Mu Stereo Compressor. I heard it at the AES Convention in NYC back in December and the thing is absolutely mind bending. If it wasn`t for the meters, I would think the piece wasn`t working and the compression on it is the best I have ever heard or should I say, the best I never heard. Isn`t that the point?

Ahhh, great gear... Avalon, Manley, ROCK ON!

Peace,
Ernest

[cableslap]

We've got that compressor also. I would have to agree..mind bending.
Peace...

[B. Carron]

Has anyone seen or got a chance to listen to the Aphex 207 yet. It just came out. Is it worth considering? It should only cost about $499, and it has 2 mic pres + Mic Limiters. I never heard the 107 but some people that I have talked to said that it was nice.

I'm also trying to find a way to get a 2 channel mic pre for low cost. I was wanting to get the Avalon 2022 but I just got engaged and my free wheelin' spending days coming to an end. Darn, I should have gotten one earlier! Oh well, I get it's not all about me anymore.

Having a nice mic pre that is portable would be nice too because I will use it to record on site through my Motu 828 and my G4 powerbook. I think I would be afraid to take the Avalon out of the house. I am using the new 6 mic pres on my Mackie mixer right now. They sound nice and clean but theyare little harsh and bright to me. I would love to get a smoother sound while recording acoustic guitars, piano, upright bass and sax.

[Ernest828]

The 2022 is great and so is the 107.

Another pre to check out is the Grace 101.

A quick story...

A friend of mine reviews gear for a trade mag. He did a review with my 107 and liked it so much that he bought his own. Before the 107 he used the 2022 to record his kick yet after some listening, he liked the bottom end better with the 107.

So go out there and get the 107. You won`t be dissappointed.
I have also recorded several albums with the 107 so it has been tested with a variety of material.

I may actually buy another 107 before an upcoming jazz CD I scheduled to record.

I am not saying that the 2022 isn``t worth the price because I own the 737s by AVALON and only use them for vocals so the 2022 has its strenghts. (Many I should add.)

You can`t go wrong with these:

Avalon
Aphex
Grace

Peace,
Ernest