Best Kept Secret

**PatSkillz** · 08-31-2002, 04:01 AM

To me, some of the most underrated mics are the Microtech Gefells. I think most people look at them as cheaper "almost-Neumanns", switching to real Neumanns as soon as they can afford to. Big mistake. Fact is that the old Gefell mics use and still use the ORIGINAL capsule that was used in the old Neumann U47, no re-issue or copy. So you can bet that a M71 or UM71 (and the other models of that series) sound exactly as a U47fet, and that the tube models (UM92, M92 if I remember correctly) sound close to a tube-U47. I have a M71 as well as a UM57 (very old tube body with the same U47 capsule) that deliver just those sounds.
Fact is also that in the same pricerange, no "real" Neumann will give you that sound. I have owned/tested U87Ai, TLM103, M147 and others, but those do not give you the sound of a U47 as much as the Gefells do.

Note that the U47 type of sound is one "character" that is not the best choice for every source, so owning one Gefell is not the end of the search. But if you add one bright mic (I call them C12-family sound) like a Blue Blueberry or Mouse, or a Rode NTK/1000, Manley Cardioid, old C12.... you have covered pretty everything you will ever need a large diaphragm condenser for.

Rock on!
P.

**PatSkillz** · 08-31-2002, 04:11 AM

...and another one.

I recently stumbled across the best vocal mic I have heard so far. It is very hard to get, cause almost no retailer carries them. The company is russian and called Nevaton. They make two large diaphragm condensers, one with a 33mm and one with a 25mm capsule. I think the bigger one is called MC416 and the smaller one MC51. I heard a comparison between those, a AKG TL2, Rode NTK, Neumann TLM 103 and M147 and some others. The Nevaton MC51 simply sounded amazing, very bright and clear without being harsh in the highs and extremely natural in the lows, more natural than any othe mic. It sounded like all others had a "recorded" proximity effect in the bass-frequencies whereas the MC51 sounded like someone standing inbetween the speakers. The differences were not night and day, but I could definitely pick the sound of the MC51 out as the best (for my taste of course). The TLM103(very similar but less natural bass) as well as the Rodes(different type of sound but also very good) were tie on the 2nd place.

Plus the Nevatons have great features for the price, like multipattern(3) switch and lowcut. On the downside, they look "russian". Not the good, rugged russian, but the "trying to look good but failing" russian

Rock on!
P.

**plastic** · 08-31-2002, 09:29 AM

Any noticed that AKG has a cheap handheld model, the 535 for a long time? KD Lang used this in her performances but I have seen this mic on the stands in a few respected studios around the world.

I bought one two years ago and I love it for the "edge" it gives when recording with R&B singers. It is a cheap mic, in the region of the Rode mics price and the sound is quite amazing. I have used this mic with experiment rock singers and it turned out quite well when used with my Focusrite Platinum Voicemaster.

I would recommend this mic for experimentation for edgier sounds. Personally, I love this mic to death. I have a pretty nice microphone collection, and this mic sits in the list of my personal favourites among the used and abused U87, C414, C12, AM62GT and Audio Technica 4050.

Hope this adds to the list of underated mics. AM62, I think, also qualifies for the underrated mic too. Not much people have pushed the AM62 enough to bring out the best in it.

Almost forget this one... the Shure KSM 32. I used it alot for Voice Over recordings for broadcast.

That is my two cents worth.

**plastic** · 08-31-2002, 09:32 AM

Originally posted by PatSkillz
To me, some of the most underrated mics are the Microtech Gefells. I think most people look at them as cheaper "almost-Neumanns", switching to real Neumanns as soon as they can afford to. Big mistake. Fact is that the old Gefell mics use and still use the ORIGINAL capsule that was used in the old Neumann U47, no re-issue or copy. So you can bet that a M71 or UM71 (and the other models of that series) sound exactly as a U47fet, and that the tube models (UM92, M92 if I remember correctly) sound close to a tube-U47.

Gee, I almost forgot about them. Tested one and was impressed. Thanks for the reminder. I did not buy it because in Singapore were I live and work, there is no technical support for it.

**Jay Pilzer** · 08-31-2002, 12:37 PM

I'll throw a couple of mics into the hopper here.
The Beyerdynamic MCE 83 is a great overhead mic and does very well on some acoustic guitars. I have used them as a stereo pair on acoustic guitar with excellent results.
The EV RE-200 is another small condensor that has a unique and useful sound. It is very bright and clear and has uses with both instruments and certain vocal applications.
The Marshall V-77 tube mic is a great vocal mic. It adds warmth while maintaing clarity. I have also used it successfully with fiddle.
The last is a well known mic that no one seems to talk about and that is the Beyerdynamic MC-740. It is a world class mic that competes well with a U-87.
The beauty of all of this is, of course, that it is so subjective that my "great sound" may leave you cold or worse.

**lestadiamond** · 08-31-2002, 08:17 PM

I've used the Oktava M 319 on vocals and guitars, with much success. Got it for $100. off a friend. Anyone with any comments on this Russian Beauty?

**Lambo** · 09-03-2002, 04:43 AM

I have a BeyerDynamic ribbon mic which has held its own over the years. I have compared it to the N1, C1, C-1000S and have found it to be the best vocal mic for my application. Certainly this is subjective, but IMHO nothing retains the warmth of the ribbon mic especially on vocals. I think ribbon mic's in general are underrated.

**Hynek** · 09-04-2002, 02:16 AM

A fellow from Toronto mentioned the AKG C480B ULS somewhere above. That would be my secret weapon as well. I still haven't found a source that throws this mic in mud especially if you have both C and O capsules.
BTW: I strikes me how much differently it behaves compared to C451B.

H

**Ted** · 09-04-2002, 09:10 AM

Fact is also that in the same pricerange, no "real" Neumann will give you that sound. I have owned/tested U87Ai, TLM103, M147 and others, but those do not give you the sound of a U47 as much as the Gefells do.

That's true...Neumann isn't even trying to make their current microphones sound exactly like their older ones. They're striving to make them better, and in some ways they are better...they certainly spec out better than the old ones (most of their newer designs are transformerless), and they are putting out some great microphones these days. However, just because something specs out better doesn't mean it sounds better, which is why there's such a demand for the vintage microphones and reissues and what not.

If you're looking for a good U47-type sound, one other microphone you might want to check out is the Soundelux E47...I'm not sure how it stacks up price-wise against the Gefell microphones, but it's certainly less expensive than a vintage U47. I've heard a few of the Gefell microphones, and I think they sound great...the one issue I've heard of with them is that since they use the same PVC diaphragm the original U47's used, the diaphragms don't last as long as the more current Mylar diaphragms. Don't know how much of an issue that really is, though...

-Ted

**Screws** · 09-08-2002, 07:53 PM

Crown PZM stuck to a piece of wood on a music stand in front and slightly to the right of a nice sounding acoustic guitar, especially when combined with a small diaphragm to the left near the 12th fret. Also nice sound with a lot of depth for a semi-circle of singers around it.

Ditto what plastic says on AKG C535 - nice on acoustic guitar, hi hat, BGVs. A little small sounding for most lead vocals for my tastes, but works well for certain songs.

Audio Technica AT4051 is obvious choice for acoustic guitar and overheads, but less known to be great on many different vocalists. Not huge like an LD, but sweet, present and even.

Ditto also for AKG C4000B - great on piercing females, also some poke-you-in-the-ear tenors. Nice to tame sibilence -- ssssssssss.

Alesis/Groove Tubes AM11 (sadly discontinued) - what a nice sounding mic! Lucky I got one as it was blown out for $200.00

CAD E-300 (replaced by E-350) try one on a few lead vocalists if you get the chance. Holds its own with much higher priced mics.

Beyer M69 vocal mic on snare drum. It's always eye and ear opening to try things on something different.

S.Cruz
Florida

**Alécio Costa- Brazil** · 09-16-2002, 11:39 PM

I like the C3000B´s and C2000B´s on my drums toms!! I use a pair of At4050´s for overheads, on snare: c418 on top and a beta 57 at bottom and a GT55 or another At4050 on the hihat. It is very close to my drum sound dream!!

**Larry Villella** · 04-29-2003, 05:45 PM

JUST TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT - ADK'S ads are bigger than SP ads, but they run less often. SP is in fact more frequently in magazines than ADK. I think the real reason for SP Success is that 1) their mics look different than anyone else's, 2) they sound good, and 3) Alan has done a masterful job of using chat rooms and the internet to promote this brand. My hat's off to him for that! As for who makes the better sounding mic - beauty is in the ear of the beholder. I could go on and on to list Over Two Dozen Grammy, Dove, and Country Music Award winners who tour with, track with or own ADK. To say Sting's engineer owns an SP
is one thing. But what does Sting Track his vocals with? Manhattan Transfer's new Telarc CD has Four ADK Tube mics on All Four Vocals.

So if you want to talk Grammy Artists, I think we should be specific:
Kathy Mattea's Lead Vocals, Spyro Gyra's Drum Tracks, Lennie Kravitz Drum Overheads: we know for a fact that these are Tracked with ADK.

I submit to you that SP's "Overshadowing" ADK is NOT At All a Product Related Issue. It is superior marketing, and long-term relationships within the music industry. SP may be the newest mic on the planet, but ADK is the newcomer to the Pro Audio scene. And we have lots to learn!

ADK is a smaller botique company run by and for musicians. We have a Much to learn about Marketing! Alan - you are the master of great market 'spin' and you back it up with a credible product. But I think the jury is out as to whether it is the Product - the Tone Qualities of ADK - that is being Overshadowed by SP. ADK started with 100 mics in my basement and a Web Site. PMI started with the infrastructure of many decades of being a Pro Audio Rep and the Joe Meek Dealer Network. So there are a number of contributing factors - Not At All Product Related - that have worked in SP's favor. I admit they sell more mics than we do!

And I also consider Alan a friend. But let's be honest - ADK broke this new ground! Before there was MXL, before there was SP, and a half dozen other brands, we were over in China working assiduously to try to get them to build good sounding mics. The measure of our success is in the Artists and the Retro-Sonics of our mics - not just our sales volume.

I have been collecting vintage mics and acoustic guitars for over 30 years. There is a Sonic Difference in our approach. If you like the more modern sound, you will probably like Alan's mics. If you like the vintage tonality, however . . . well . . . I'll leave that for the forum to discover.

Sincerely,

Larry J. Villella, Pres. ADK Microphones
URL: www.adkmic.com
Email: larry@adkmic.com

**flattop100** · 04-29-2003, 06:36 PM

I posted this before in a "weird mic'ing techniques" post, but it's worth another shot. If you've got an upright piano that sounds like crap (especially in the high end), put a D112 on it. This helped me out in a live situation quite a bit--feedback went from constant companion to far-off neighbor.

Not sure how it would sound on the studio, but what the heck?

That reminds me--does anyone use a lav-sized mic inside a vent hole on a snare? I've always thought that would sound interesting, but never had the chance to try it.

**michaelhoddy** · 04-29-2003, 08:19 PM

Two Crown PCC-160 boundary mics gaffer-taped to a piece of 1/2" plywood on a mic stand for drum overheads. I still love the tracks I did with those.

**alanhyatt** · 05-02-2003, 09:50 PM

I take exception to Larry's comments at ADK. First, he is not a friend, and second, I don't care for his acusations that Stings engineer does not use it on Sting. Were you there for any of the sessions Larry?

You seem to have a complex about Grammy Artists as if ADK is the only mic that are used. So, you used ADK mics on some overheads for a drummer. Ok, good for you. If Doug Obkercher and Sting are not believable for you, then let me tell you that Take Six used two T3's in place of Sony C800G's for their last album, and that was "lead vocals". That was a Grammy Winner. Marcus Miller had several of our mics on his last "Grammy" winning album. Of, I forgot to mention that Kahliqe Glover the Grammy winning engineer and producer used several of our mics. Not to mention Jason Miles Grammy for the remake of Weather Report, Oh, and there was Gato's new album, and I could go on if you want me to. Don't think you own the market Larry. Either way that is not the point. Why are you so uptight that Sting used our mic.

I also take exception to your comment and I quote," I started with the infrastructure of many decades of being a Pro Audio Rep and the Joe Meek Dealer Network. So there are a number of contributing factors - Not At All Product Related'.

So it seems to me that you are saying that my product had nothing to do with my success as a mic designer. Well, we have won four major awards so far and was chosen mic of the year for 2002. I don't see ADK winning much awards, with all due respect.

This probably should not even be done on this thread. I just don't understand why after almost two years after the first post on this thread, you decide to bash me and my mics.

So, before you slam me and my mics, be sure you know what your slammin. It sounds like you have a problem with our success much more than you wish to let on. Perhaps it is all "Product Related".