Best Kept Secret

[Dix]

Originally posted by Ed Belknap


Isn't the PL9 the "same" as the 635a? (I put "same" in quotes because different dealers will tell you different stories about the similarities of Electro-Voice's PL line to their "pro" line.)

635a is a great unsung guitar amp mic.

I dug around the EV site & found the spec sheet for the 635A... and confirmed what I believed from the EV catalog.

The 635A is acutally closer (not only in looks) to the old PL-5.

The only distinction between the PL-9 & the PL-5 sound-wise was freq. response.

If memory serves...

The PL-5 was advertised as 80-12K
The PL-9 was advertised as 55-15K

The PL-9 is actually nearly DEAD FLAT to 80Hz where the 635A is down about 3dB at 80Hz.

Also the 635A has a bit of a "presence peak" from about 4K to 9K, while the PL-9 is +/-1dB from about 80Hz thru 12K.

But hey... as I've always said... to hell with numbers... what do your ears tell you?

If you like it... use it.

[wildplum]

While I respect the right of Alan Hyatt of the PMI Audio Group to express an opinion, I am not sure I trust much of what the PMI Group says. Here's my tale of woo.

Back last Fall, I bought a Signature One from PMI. To test it out, I plugged it into a little mackie (1402). It seemed to work. But when I wired it into my patch bay (an Audio Accessories bay, true pro and not cheap), all I got out of the unit was a loud whinnneee. Worst, several of my other devices (things like a Manley ELOP) produced noises as well. Removing the Signature One from the bay eliminated the noises. So, I contacted PMI. To their credit, they allowed me to return the unit for repair. But they couldn't find anything wrong with it. I had a long conversation with one of their techs. He said he had had it plugged into a little Mackie for several hours and couldn't produce a whinniing noise. (Duh, ya i knew that.) They couldn't find anything wrong with it. So, thinking it must be something I did, I allowed them to send it back to me. Mistake. The unit still is unusable, still produces a whinning noise when plugged into my patch bay. On futhter tersting, it also produced strange noise in my 03D console when plugged directly into that board. But it does pass the Mackie test. Since then, I've learned from others that a number of these units have had power supply related problems. Yet, PMI never mentioned that to me.
The long and short of it, I am stuck with a unit the PMI says has nothing wrong with it, yet the unit is completely unusable in my studio.

[jamie garner]

what is the signature one? is it the micpre they've started selling, or is it one of the mics in the line?

[wildplum]

The Signatuer One is a sigle channel Trident-based mic pre and EQ combination. And, when working properly, it sounds damn great.

[mastahnke]

I also love the ADK51, not the tube though, because I don't have it yet. Alan points out some truths there, they have been selling them longer than SP and stuff but, there are reasons they are less known, for example, huge mail-order companies don't carry them. The only place I know that does is 8thstreet and the mom and pop shops in a few towns. That accounts for lack of slaes and discussion on most forums...where the SP mics are king. I like the SP mics a whole lot too, I am not trying to really say one is better than the other, they have a bit of a different sound.
The thread is about well-kept secrets of mics, the ADK takes my cake. In addition to that though, using really old PA mics turns out to be quite a trip. I got one from a high school auction that has a four-pin connector to the mic and the XLR input was backwards. After resoldering the XLR cable and turing up the gain, (impediance is an issue), you instantly are taken back to that 1965 outdoor graduation type tone. Wonderful for when playing somethign similar to the Kinks.

--MIKE

[alanhyatt]

Originally posted by wildplum
While I respect the right of Alan Hyatt of the PMI Audio Group to express an opinion, I am not sure I trust much of what the PMI Group says. Here's my tale of woo.

Back last Fall, I bought a Signature One from PMI. To test it out, I plugged it into a little mackie (1402). It seemed to work. But when I wired it into my patch bay (an Audio Accessories bay, true pro and not cheap), all I got out of the unit was a loud whinnneee. Worst, several of my other devices (things like a Manley ELOP) produced noises as well. Removing the Signature One from the bay eliminated the noises. So, I contacted PMI. To their credit, they allowed me to return the unit for repair. But they couldn't find anything wrong with it. I had a long conversation with one of their techs. He said he had had it plugged into a little Mackie for several hours and couldn't produce a whinniing noise. (Duh, ya i knew that.) They couldn't find anything wrong with it. So, thinking it must be something I did, I allowed them to send it back to me. Mistake. The unit still is unusable, still produces a whinning noise when plugged into my patch bay. On futhter tersting, it also produced strange noise in my 03D console when plugged directly into that board. But it does pass the Mackie test. Since then, I've learned from others that a number of these units have had power supply related problems. Yet, PMI never mentioned that to me.
The long and short of it, I am stuck with a unit the PMI says has nothing wrong with it, yet the unit is completely unusable in my studio.

I am sorry for the delay, as I have not been on this group in some time, or I would have answered you earlier. First of all, the unit performed fine in our shop. It is not in our best interest to return a unit to you that has a problem. Second, I do not make these units, but I do sell them and service them. We have sold countless numbers of these units. We have had a couple with a trace crack, or a bad regulator, but nothing more in percentages than any other manufacturer sees in the field.

When you interface a unit to another unit, that does not automatically mean there is not an issue with how your interfacing it. A bad patch bay jack, a bad wire, a floating ground issue out there all can play havoc with a unit. Now how you learned about a power supply problem that does not exist is beyond me. The IX-One's supply is quite beefy and not a problem. Fletcher at Mercenary said the IX-One was one of his favorite units in the line.

I am sorry that you have a problem, but at the same time, I do not remember you calling us to tell us about it. In either case if it passes the Mackie test as you say, then the unit works, so there must be another issue...perhaps a cable wired improperly. The pin configuration for the IX-One is pin2/hot, pin3/neutral, and pin1/ground. Try by-passing your patch bay. If it works then your issue is in the bay, not the unit. I do not know how your bay is normaled or wired for that fact, so you should by-pass it and try the IX-One again.

We are always happy to look at it again for you. What can I say if it tested out correctly in our facility. Your obvioulsy angry, but you are taking that anger out on us by saying we are not to be trusted! The unit works with your Mackie so what does that tell you? It is not our job to install or troubleshoot your system, but we do stand behind the product.

PMI Audio Group has an excellent reputation. We do not give false information and we do not return units that don't work. If we were unable to find a problem that "may" exist, then that is our error, but that has nothing to do with trust. Again, I am sorry "you" have an issue. You're the only one out there with this unit that does, so again, we are happy to look at it for you, but you will have to call us for an ATR. Otherwise, I suggest you get a professional in there to interface and troubleshoot your setup.

[alanhyatt]

double post

[Moz]

speaking of secret mics, has anyone heard or know anything about the beringer spectram analyzer mic for $35 bucks? I know other mics of this
type sometimes make great ov's or room mics. Any thoughts?

[Dix]

I don’t have any personal experience with them but I have looked at the specs.

They aren’t as “flat” as more expensive analyzer mics as they have about a +2dB response from about 3-16K.

One thing I wish some WOULD invest in one for is for their sound systems. One of these coupled with a cheap laptop and a shareware program like SpectraRTA would make a HUGE difference in a few of the sound systems I’ve heard locally.

[Moz]

Hey Dix
Thanks for the specs
i think im gonna get a couple to try as room mics, for 35 bucks, if they suck, ill just make some sculpture out of em, or use them as a back scratcher.
moz

[Ed Belknap]

Originally posted by Moz
speaking of secret mics, has anyone heard or know anything about the beringer spectram analyzer mic for $35 bucks? I know other mics of this
type sometimes make great ov's or room mics. Any thoughts?

Yes indeed, the Behringer ECM8000 is an omnidirectional condenser that sells for, that's right, $35. As Dix points out, it's not as flat as you would ideally want a calibrated reference mic to be...but you weren't interested in using it for that purpose anyway, right? You want a cheap omni condenser for overheads & room mics etc. And for that (as well as for Jecklin Disc or spaced A/B recording) a bit of a rise above 2kHz is actually an asset. The most primo omnis from Schoeps, DPA, T.H.E., etc call this a "diffuse field omni"; the lift in the high end compensates for the loss of detail when your mics get far enough away from the source to not be within the direct soundfield.

That being said, the problem with the Behringer ECM8000 (and the reason why they are only $35) is that they are noisey as all get-out. You could certainly use them for rock drum overheads or rock drum (or rock guitar) room mics, but they are almost unusable for any critical recordings of quiet, delicate sources. Solo violin? Nope. Hammered dulcimer? Ain't gonna happen. Any kind of chamber music? Sorry, next contestant please.

[Moz]

thank you very much for your reply. I have been very curious about these mics for a while, and there quality. That is the only thing that I worry about with beringer products. I have heard alot of folks complain about there construction, reliablity, ect.... on the other hand I have a older composer compressor by beringer that blows all of the cheaper transistor compressors out of the water. It has a very distinctive sound. I have heard that a newer composer by beringer would not sound the same as my older one, Any one have any thoughts on this?
Moz

[Ted]

I'd be interested in knowing about the microphones as well...it's true, construction, reliability, and especially quality control are the main things people seem to complain about with Behringer products. Not sure how much you've got to lose with a $35 microphone though...

It doesn't surprise me that your Composer sounds better than the more current ones...from what I understand, the quality control really dropped when they moved manufacturing to China (or Taiwan, I forget where)...

-Ted

[seawell_studios]

I really like the Rode NT1000. I think it has been overshadowed by the NTK but at $299 it is a steal!

[Aubrey Litvack]

well all being said, I think each and every one of the mic's mentioned have there own valuable assets, and are likely the right choice for those who know when and how to use them.
I've found one mic that seems to be recognized by every engineer I speak with, and seems to do exceedingly well in just about every application I've applied it - from drum overheads, to acoustic and nylon guitars, to stereo room mic'ing(with omni heads), and even on horns and vocals.
The mic is the AKG C480b uls.
It's not cheap, but it's not rediculously expensive, and for the price of a U87 you could easily get a pair with a set of cardiod and omni capsules.
These mics fair incredibly well both in and out of the studio and really allow fine instruments and performances to shine, without any extreme coloration.
They're great for voices that tend to be sibilant when recorded with the classics, and they're stunningly detailed on gentle instruments - a grand, or even upright piano recorded with these through a decent pre will blow you away with it's realism.