Need help with female vocals

[Chu Toi]

Hello all, I'm hoping you might be able to help an amateur out with some suggestions.

I'm working on a recording right now with a female vocalist. She has a softer voice and is often compared to Sade when asked who she sounds like. The genre of music is Brazilian. Some Bossa Nova, some Samba, etc.

I'm working with an Audio Technica 4050 and a Universal Audio 6176. Again, I'm an amateur and I've never worked with quality gear like the 6176 before. I'm virtually clueless on where to set anything on the 6176. I've read here many time "listen and experiment". I respect that very much and I do. But, I'm just wondering if anybody would be able to offer some starting suggestions regarding setting up the 6176. Especially on the compressor side.

Thanks *very* much,
John

[David Klausner]

Obviously, you have to use your ears, but...

For vocals, try starting with the attack on the compressor set at about 10:00 and the release set at about 2:00. If she's got a "Sade" kind of thing happening, I wouldn't hit the compressor too hard - just a few dB of the louder passages. I usually start at 4:1 ratio for vocals, but you should experiment with 8:1 as well - you may find that just a little bit of more extreme compression will tame the louder peaks but leave the rest of the vocal alone. The 1176 can get very aggressive if you push it (I often peg my meters) - great for rock'n'roll, but you'll want to be more gentle here.

[Chu Toi]

Thanks very much David. I'm suprised I only have one response so far but I do really appreciate your advice and I'll start there.

[michaelhoddy]

An 1176 wouldn't be my first choice for a female vocal, unless it was a rock vocal, and maybe even then...

I'd probably do 4:1 as well. The 1176 is pretty colorful, and you might not like the coloration, so I'd be going for no more than about 4 dB off the top. Still, try cranking the input gain up and the output gain down to increase the gain reduction, and see if you like the coloration. Who knows. If it starts to suck, back it off.

If you want it to deal more aggressively with peaks, but not be pumping in and out all the time, try a higher ratio and a higher threshold. Keep the attack and release fairly fast, but not too fast (especially the release).

[Chu Toi]

Originally posted by michaelhoddy
An 1176 wouldn't be my first choice for a female vocal, unless it was a rock vocal, and maybe even then...


Thanks Michael,

Complicated world this recording stuff! Interesting that you would not choose the 1176 for this type of vocal. I've only been recording my own stuff for a couple of years so I rely ALLOT on what other people say, especially sales reps that I've come to trust. I had a $2,500 budget when purchasing my vocal channel strip and the 6176 is the gear that was recommened above others available in this price range for this type of work. I even used the same description of what I would be using it for. A jazzy, Sade style, female vocal. And, the 6176 was the recommended piece of gear.

From all I've read on this... maybe it's all a matter of personal taste? Or, is the 6176 truly not a good choice for what I am using it for?

[David Klausner]

If there were hard and fast rules, we'd all be making the same records. The 1176 is certainly one of my "go to" compressors, and I use it quite frequently on female vocals. Sometimes it isn't the right choice, but often it is. When you have gear with "character", it is wonderful on the right track, and less than satisfying on the wrong one. Neutral, transparent gear is rarely the "wrong" piece for a track, but also rarely enhances a track the way the proper character piece will. In the ideal world, you would have a variety of units available, with a variety of characters, and use them as the colors in your palette.

[michaelhoddy]

Well, as always, what I say (and what I like) doesn't have to be what you like. If the 1176 is working for you and you like the sound, that's the most important thing.

I'm usually from the LA-2A/ dbx 160 school for females. I haven't had one in here that's rocked hard enough for anything more aggressive (like a Distressor or even a Daking comp), and if I want aggressive and in-your-face, I usually can find enough of that with whatever mic I choose.

Bass guitar, kick/snare, and overheads? Different story.

[Chu Toi]

Originally posted by michaelhoddy
Well, as always, what I say (and what I like) doesn't have to be what you like. If the 1176 is working for you and you like the sound, that's the most important thing.

I'm usually from the LA-2A/ dbx 160 school for females. I haven't had one in here that's rocked hard enough for anything more aggressive (like a Distressor or even a Daking comp), and if I want aggressive and in-your-face, I usually can find enough of that with whatever mic I choose.

Bass guitar, kick/snare, and overheads? Different story.

Thanks again. So, would I be better off to just not use the compressor side of the 6176 when tracking more mellow, female vocals? Kind of a bummer though. Had I known, I would have saved a ton of money and gone with just a 610 preamp. Or, something else all together.

Is there a channel strip that is particularily well suited for jazzy, female vocals if the 6176 isn't the best piece of gear to use for this?

[michaelhoddy]

No, I'm not saying that at all. Try it, see what you like.

All I'm saying is that I'd personally be wary of hitting the compressor too hard for most female vox. But you should try doing that too, as you might like it.

Most of my jazz female vocals end up being Avalon 737 (one of the things it's good at, although I bypass the compressor) or my Buzz MA2.2 into my Demaria ADL1000 (an LA-2A clone)

[Chu Toi]

Originally posted by michaelhoddy
No, I'm not saying that at all. Try it, see what you like.

All I'm saying is that I'd personally be wary of hitting the compressor too hard for most female vox. But you should try doing that too, as you might like it.

Most of my jazz female vocals end up being Avalon 737 (one of the things it's good at, although I bypass the compressor) or my Buzz MA2.2 into my Demaria ADL1000 (an LA-2A clone)

Cool. Got it. Interesting that you bring up the 737. That was my first choice and I was kind of "talked out of it". I was told that the EQ section on the 737 left allot to be desired and that the compressor was... well, not the greatest.

BTW... I don't want to sound like a helpless idiot here and imply that somebody gave me the wrong advice on what gear to buy. The burden of making the right choice falls with me. I'm just sharing the different perspectives I've received on this type of gear and trying to make the best of what I went with. I wouldn't even be burning this amount of bandwidth on it but I think that spending over $2,000 on a single channel of anything is probably a decision that can make us sweat a bit. That is allot of jack for a single piece of gear, for most project guys like me. If you buy the wrong thing, it could be months or a year before you are in the financial position to make a "corrective purchase".

Anyway, thanks a ton to both of you guys for chiming in. Hoddy, this probably falls into your thread that had the "quit talking about what gear to buy and learn the techniques of making a good recording" theme. But, clearly, gear must make a difference too.

[michaelhoddy]

Interesting. The EQ in the 737 is the thing I (and a number of other people I know) like the most about the unit. I don't like the compressor in it much. I almost always bypass it.