Windows XP question

[mightypudge]

I recently built a PC and would like to start using it for recording. Here is my current configuration:

AMD Athlon XP 1800+ 1.53 GHz
ASUS A7V266-E Mobo w/ VIA 266A Chipset
Visiontek GeForce3 Ti500 Video Card
Soundblaster Audigy X-Gamer Sound Card
Maxtor 40GB Hard Drive
Windows XP OS

I already own a MOTU 2408 mkII that I am currently using in a Mac G4 400MHz. Is the 2408 compatible with Windows XP? with the AMD? with the motherboard?

Also, what would be the best choice for software? I need audio recording and MIDI sequencing capabilites.

[Jim Wintringham]

It sounds like you have a nice system. My favorite software is from www.pgmusic.com . They just released Band-In-A-Box v.11,which is a really neat song creation tool. You type in a chord progression....and the program will build all the parts of a 'style' to turn it into a song. You can add voice or, as an example, your own guitar part to the midi in realtime, then saveit as a wave or mp3 file. They also have a program called Power Tracks ($29) that is a GREAT MIDI sequencer/ audio recorder. It has all the latest effects, and direct-x compatibility. IT also has a bunch of built-in drum parts.I use them both together. IT also has 4-part real instrument wave files that can be purchased seperatly. you can use them to build up your playing skills..... you can mute any part .... and add your own playing.
I also like the Cakewalk program (I have the version that came with Sound Blaster Live!). It is a smaller version of the 'pro', but is all I really need. They changed their name to 'Sonic' something I think. They have a guitar version (free demo) at www.harmonycentral.com
I hope this helps.

[JBro]

Your system is very nice and interestingly matches specs for what has been highly recommended on the Sonar User Forum (www.cakewalk.com). I'm currently using Cakewalk Pro Audio 9.3 and am getting ready to jump to Sonar XL and Win XP Pro. The majority of the post's there clearly indicate that, once configured properly, Sonar works very nicely in Win XP. I've rarely heard major complaints by those who have taken the time to carefully research issues prior to upgrading/install. Once again though, your PC configuration matches some of the best reported bench mark results I've read on that forum (a common arguement there is that Athalon XP adequately outperform's P4 processor's!).

I would definitely recommend going to Sonar. Don't want to sound like a salesman (which I'm not!), but Sonar recently won Electronic Musician's 2002 Editor's Choice Award. Rather high praise. There are two version's, Sonar and Sonar XL. XL has a solid loop disc along with many soft synths/fx plug in's. Depending on what you would need, Sonar might suit you well.

I've always recieved great customer support and the user forum's are loaded with great advice (just like Sweetwater's!). If you're looking to make an informed decision, check that forum out.

Good luck,

JB

[mightypudge]

Thanks for the advice JB. I have heard many good things about Sonar XL, and I am considering that as a strong possibility. I have heard that my PC will ROCK with Sonar XL. Now, I'll need to focus my concern to the issue of compatibility.

First: hardware. Since I own a MOTU 2408 mkII and would like to continue using it, I need to find out if the 2408 will work with Sonar XL. I also use the MOTU FastLane USB for MIDI duties. Secondly: software. I own the Waves NPP and several soft synths, including the most recent versions of NI Pro-52, Rebirth, and Retro AS-1. Will I be able to use this software with Sonar?

[JBro]

Pardon me, forgot to address those. First off, once again, I would refer you to the forum for specific answers to those questions and to http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SR/FAQ.html which should note specifics regarding many of your questions. That said, I'll give it a go from my recall. Specifically, the MOTU FastLane USB may have issues with WinXP as there has been an issue with USB midi interfaces chewing up large amount's of CPU usage WinXP. My understanding is that the only manufacturer that has fixed this issue so far is Midiman in regard to their Midi Sport interface's lastest driver release. I do recall that MOTU has been working on this issue, yet I haven't read an update regarding this.

I am not well versed regarding your other soft app's. I would presume that Waves NPP would pull up just fine as an editor in Sonar as long as it is Direct X compatible. The same would be true for your soft synths. There is a VST conversion plug-in/application that allows VST FX plug-in's to work with Direct X applications and this may apply to the softsynths as well. You should be able to get more info at Cakewalk's website.

I just checked the Supported Sound Card list and your MOTU 2408 mkII is noted (http://www.cakewalk.com/Tips/audiohw.htm).

Hope that help's,

JB

[mightypudge]

I checked the Cakewalk website, and it appears that both Retro AS-1 and NI Pro-52 both support DXi. The Waves website says that the NPP supports DXi as well.

So now, my big concern is the FastLane USB. MOTU posted WDM drivers for their MIDI hardward back in September of 2001, but I doubt they specifically address the CPU issue. Guess I'll be checking in with MOTU (and maybe Midiman). :)

Thanks again JB. You've been a great source of help. You wanna be my PC buddy? :) I hear every newbie PC user needs one!

[JBro]

You bet. I would be happy to help as best I can. I'm not as familiar as I would like to be with this forum. Is there anything specific I need to click on or note?

JB

[AcousticPro]

I haven't heard this asked, but why would you move to a PC from a MAC G4? I know the "number" is bigger, but the stability and performance won't be much better. On top of the fact that WINXP isn't very supported by much of anyone at this point. Granted there are several software companies that are now touting XP compatibility, but the hardware companies are having a hard time writing driver hooks. Let me say it again "Drivers Reign King in DAW Land!". If you're dedicating a system to doing audio then the operating system shouldn't be a big deal. Use something tried and true for a while. If you want to upgrade once it's been proven then go for it. I talk to a lot of people who are frustrated they can't make music and upset that things don't work and complain about the manufacturers and lack of support, but they are using beta drivers and forget how small this industry is. Many manufacturers have less employees than Sweetwater! Keep it in perspective when you read the marketing. Any more thoughts here?

[mightypudge]

I would not even be considering a move if I already wasn't experiencing stability and performance issues with the G4. The Mac has been optimized for studio use: big hard drive, lean System Folder, ample RAM, etc. However, the processor chokes on the Waves plugins and I crash constantly when running multiple MIDI synth tracks. Overall, it's been a real drag.

I love my Mac. Nothing can replace it's grace and simplicity. But when I'm running Digital Performer 3.01 I don't get the performance and stability I would expect from a high end computer. When I run Word or Excel, it's a different story.

[AcousticPro]

It sounds like you are starting to hit on some of the problem issues. Did you buy this system from Sweetwater? It sounds like you may have some programs on the machine and a lack of optimization that you will still run into. DP on a mac is a tried and true rock solid environment. There has to be issues with your particular set-up. I hate to see you waste your dollars buying another machine when you don't need it. Have you checked the knowledge base on the Sweetwater web-site for optimization tips? How long have you had the computer? Have you defragmented the drive once every 3 months? Are you recording to the system drive or a dedicated audio drive? These are the types of questions that we would need to explore before just defaulting to spend several hundred dollars trying to get into something that isn't really going to solve your problem. I've been through the trenches on this type of issue. Please don't make a hasty mistake. It sounds like you're headed the wrong direction.

[mightypudge]

I did not purchase this setup from Sweetwater. I record to a dedicated internal IDE 7200 RPM hard drive that was purchased brand new for this specific purpose. The drive is defragged often, but that us irrelevant since I have had problems since day one.

The bottom line is that I know my stuff, and I have done my research. MOTU tells me that they are not surprised to hear that my 400 MHz G4 is having problems running multiple MIDI channels and Waves plugins simultaneously. I have a few Sweetwater guys tell me that they have similar problems with their older Macs, so I know I'm not alone. It sounds like my only option is to buy a new Mac. Not a bad thing, just expensive. I thought the G4 would last me longer than two years. But since Steve Jobs is so anal about his products, I have no upgrade options left. God forbid I should want to upgrade my processor.

[AcousticPro]

It is possible, but I am curious as to what version of Waves you are running. They have leaned the code in the last couple of revisions and that may help drastically. If you have the second generation G4 that is.

[mightypudge]

I am using a Mac G4 400 MHz w/ AGP graphics and the most recent version of the Waves NPP 3.0 in addtion to the recent updates made available on their website.

Typically I am running an Alesis DM5 for my drums, and at least one soft synth, most often Retro AS-1. As long as I run with a minimal amount of plugins and MIDI tracks, I experience no problems. Once things get complicated (bussing, FX, limiting, etc) things get hairy.

[AcousticPro]

I would guess that your needs changed from the time you bought it or whoever you bought it from didn't set realistic expetations. I wish I could help further, but unless we get into specifics in terms of exactly what plug-ins you are using and how I probably couldn't go much further and still may not be able to account for even the growth in need you may have had since you originally bought the system. It would be easy if all that changed with each generation of Mac was the CPU. As it is now the entire cooling mechanism, PCI bus and motherboard and power supply have changed, which, anal or not do create a much more superior machine that just upgrading a processor, Mac or PC. I wish you the best in your endeavor, but would encourage you to exhaust any possiblities perhaps even an apple loan for the computer if it means the integrity of your music. Let me know if I can help further. Any other ideas are welcome as well.

[NukleoN]

Just for the record,

XP is rock solid for audio...the XP driver support is definitely there...I know because I researched this heavily before I upgraded from Win2K to XP. My WDM driver-enabled Delta 1010 also works great, and I get low latency when using softsynths through Sonar 2 XL.

[NukleoN]

Maybe Jeff, you could explain specifically how a Mac is inherently superior to a PC? Heck you can even get liquid cooled PC's nowadays if you're so inclined. I think the Mac speed is way down too compared to the fastest PC's out there.