Looking for CRAZY LOUD subs

[sounzgud]

Hi,

I am looking for some extremely loud, efficient subs for a fairly major overhaul for a pro sound company. I am a big fan of the idea of horn loading becase of the incredible output/efficiency. I have been considering the EAW BH760's, but they are impossible to find used and I am very careful about resale value. So it seems probible that I could find some LA400's used, but the LF on them looks pretty feeble. If I were to stack them together center stage, would that be enough to compinsate? I would be using 8-10 of them, so I'm thinking that with proper DSP, power amps, etc. I could put together a pretty thumpin' rig. Aslo if I were to use the LA's, should I actually only power them to 500 watts? I am open to other suggestions, however I am not to crazy about the sound of front loaded components in subs, they have always sounded papery to me.

[sounzgud]

How about kf940's?

[xstatic]

Look into the EAW SB1000's. They aren't horn loaded and are front loaded, but thats what people use when they really want to hit hard. Using 4 of those per side should rock out a venue of 2000 and smaller. You may even be able to get sufficient output out of 1 Crown MA5000 per side. 2 per side would most certainly slam them. I recently did an outdoor show for 500 people on one of the smaller JBL Vertec rigs with just 4 tops per side and 2 of the new JBL srx 700 series subs per side. I was blown away at how well those subs kept up for only 2 per side. I am not sure what amps the rental company was running. It was a festival gig and I was FOH engineer for one of the bands so I rolled in about 10 minutes before their soundcheck. Not only that, but the FOH processing wasn't even stellar (DBX Driverack 480 system) and the rig still rocked pretty hard.

[michaelhoddy]

SB1000's are great. Very stackable, too. You won't be disappointed.

[flattop100]

http://www.mccauleysound.com/product_overview.cfm?ID=53

That's a link to a twin 18" touring box. No horns. I've never thought horn-loaded subs worked, but that's just me.

McCauley's 6174 18" driver is the most ridiculous 18" I've ever felt, personally.They don't sound papery; to the contrary. McCauley's enclosure results in an amazingly tight sub/bass sound. And damn, does it love amplifiers.

Some of their propoganda: The 6174's twin coupled magnet structures increase the power handling to 800w RMS / 1600w PROGRAM, while the system's convective cooling chambers actively dissapate heat. The 6174 offers over 2" of controlled, peak to peak cone excursion for exceptional performance.

[xstatic]

I have not heard those specific McCauley's yet, but all my past experiences with McCauley cabs have been OK. None though have been great or blown my mind, but all have been satisfactory:)

Good news on the EAW subs is that there are a lot of them out there. That means you can find them used easily, rent more to augment your rig when you need to easily, and that they are tried and true so they are a safe purchase.

About the papery sound.... My experience is that sound doesn't really come from being front loaded. That is usually the sound of either a cheap nasty design or driver, being underpowered, using a slow amplifier, or just plain old bad system tuning. Horn loaded subs are typically designed for huge outdoor stages and are designed to throw the bass long distances, not actually to be louder or boomier. The disadvantage is the loss of actual power and speed in the sound. Personally, I could see using them for a rave, but for bands, I like my kick drum to hit hard. Not super super deep, but that kind of kick that hits you in the chest instead of just vibrating your head. I have always found that dificult to do with horn loaded subs unless it was a 4 way rig with flown tops that had enough power that they could reproduce a fast 80 hz. Thats why I suggested the EAW sb1000's. You could still run them pretty efficiently in a 3 way rig with the crossover up around 95 hz.

My experience with the LA series EAW has been pretty bad. In my opinion they don't sound anywhere near as good as the EAW KF range. personally, the only EAW stuff I really like is their subs and their monitors. I love their sm monitors though, especially for loud rock:D

[sounzgud]

Actually it is a flown four way rig, but the tops aren't designed to be particualarly bassy (sorry had to brag). Why would the timing of the speakers matter? I do intend to use good DSP with the rig so that the speakers would be properly aligned. Even if you are talking about the stage volume matching the P.A. in terms of time alignment, we are still talking about a delay of less than 1/10 of a second. Wouldn't that be ok? I have run 1/10 second delays with mastering processors live and it sounded groovy to me.

[sounzgud]

I forgot to mention, long throw on subs is definately not a bad thing to me. I have some really big outdoor shows coming up.

[AudioBond]

take a look at the new Community TLF218's. Dual 18" drivers in a 45"w x 30"d x (I think...) 24" or so cabinet. Not overly heavy, have feet and cups to facilitate easy stacking, LOUD, and flyable with the proper hardware (ATM I think... uses the same kind of rigging straps that EAW KF750's and whatnot use). I routinely use 2 to 4 a side with some very nice results. Not too long ago I did a latin gig at the Patriot Center in VA and had 16 of em stacked 2 hi by 8 wide in a center cluster in front of the stage with 8 JBL Vertec a side for highs in a half arena configuration and let me tell you... when I fired that rig up and shot some playback thru it (especially bassier stuff like Tool and No Doubt etc...) It almost hurt to be in the first 5 to 10 rows! definately no shortage of low end at that show! BTW, I was running them on 4 Crown Macrotech 5000's, 2 cabinets per channel. They are relatively new, so used might not be an option and I have no idea what your budget is, but check em out. I'm very glad our company bought some!

hope this helps!

later,

-Chris