Stereo spatializing?

[StrykeBack]

I always wondered how the final mastered tracks could sound so good. Especially being able to put the vocals or guitar on what seems to be the "outsides" of the mix and maybe the kick or bass right down the center or on the "inside" of the mix
I first ran across this effect playing witha copy of Logic 5, there is a plugin i believe called stereo spatialing that did something to this effect...
I now have Cubase SX2 and i know there are a couple pannin options...which seem to be quite useless...but is there any kinda way to get the effect I'm describing or do you know ofa certain plugin that will do this? How do the pros get this effect?
Thanks
Daniel

[djui5]

moving things around on a horizontal plane is acomplished two ways...one is panning and another is phasing. That's what your plug-in does...changes the phase relationship between two tracks to move them further out in the stereo spectrum. Be carefull as to how much phasing you do to a track..because too much is a bad thing.

[StrykeBack]

thanks, so its called phasing? Anybody using Cubase sx might be able to explain how they do this effect? I don't own a plugin for that with this setup...I discovered it routing through an older logic 5 copy that i was borrowing.
If anybody could point me towards a company that sells it in a package or knows of a decent freebie that would be most helpful.

Thanks guys for all your help

Daniel

[djui5]

an easy way to do it is to apply a delay to a track..and set the delay time for 2ms...then adjust the delay time untill you get the effect you want.

[penguin]

I almost always use that effect on rythm guitar and suporting vocals for a nice big sound, but I just do it by hand.
After recording the track, copy and paste it into a new track and pan them full left and right. Zoom waaaayyyy in and move one of them forward a bit. A little bit of trial and error will go a long way here, just play with the spacing until you get the sound you want. When your imaging is satisfactory, you may have to boost or pull the level of one of the tracks to get the same volume from each speaker, and ignore what your meters are telling you. The only thing that matters is what your ears have to say.
Anyway, I like this method because it gives you total control over the effect you are trying to achieve, and it only takes a couple minutes,
Mark

[StrykeBack]

so that really works uh? I never had these options with my yamaha 2816 but now that I have cubase the options seem endless. Thats a great idea...I had thought of ways to do dubbling but i'm an idiot for forgetting that I could just copy and paste again...i was thinkin of phase cancellation problems probably(though i think thats just at the mic)

It was driving me nuts on how i couldn't open up the other panning options on a mono track (the fact that they were "stereo" panning options seemed to skip my mind) but this obviously fixes that...so this is how its done uh?

You guys are definitely teaching me alot...how much of a delay or lag shoudl i nudge the track behind the other? like by a 64th quantize or the smallest nudge possible?

Thanks,
Daniel

[parlormusic]

This is the technique I use is to duplicate a guitar track, add from 7-10ms delay and pan it opposite of the other...usually hard right if the other is hard left. Adding a delay of under 7ms really only puts things out of phase which will cancel out some frequncies.

[StrykeBack]

As far as adding the delay to a duplicate track...where is it that you would set the delay? After playing with Cubase a bit I think i've figured out what your saying but to be sure i'm getting the same type that your speaking of i just want to make sure. I tried just sliding the track over but the lowest setting is quantize at 1 over 64th beat...then i realized you can manually punch in the numbers in the ruler...
So the first track starts here: 68.03.01.000
I pushed the second identical track to: 68.03.01.007

I wasn't sure what position on the clock the milisecond actually was.
Thanks
Daniel

[parlormusic]

I don't know how to do it in your software, but I accomplish this with a plugin. You should have some type of delay plugin...or maybe not.

[djui5]

I'm sure cubase comes with a factory delay plug-in.....

Either way you can just nudge the track untill you get the effect you like. Try turning the grid off and moving it freehand untill you get it to sound the way you want...screw the grid, use your ears.

Lesson #1...use your ears.
Lesson #2...in the event of computer,plug-in,auto-tune,outboard gear failure, refer to Lesson #1
Lesson #3....use your ears. They are the greatest tool you have....forget about the screen and all that techno mumbo jumbo...close your eyes and slide the track to the right untill it sounds the way you want...

[StrykeBack]

ahh words from the wise...
I think I might just turn that grid off, put a blind fold on and just go to town on some of these tracks.
Thanks for the comments...also I figured out the timing scale...had to dig out that pdf file (eyes needed for that)
It does have a delay plugin but its more for repeating or so it seems..perhaps i should (tweak it) a bit more.

[StrykeBack]

Just for knowledge sake, what plugins do you guys use for this?
I know of the one for logic 5...i liked it. wish i had it for cubase

[djui5]

the stock plug in pro-tools works fine...and you can adjust it so that it won't repeat by turning down the feedback to 0. The higher the feedback the more repeats.
Some other like echo farm have a repeat knob...

timing scale?

[parlormusic]

Originally posted by StrykeBack
Just for knowledge sake, what plugins do you guys use for this?
I know of the one for logic 5...i liked it. wish i had it for cubase

Since I mix down in Vegas Audio, I use the Simple Delay plugin with the Pseudo Stereo setting that is bundled with Vegas.