balanced vs unbalanced

[rmmcel]

This might be a silly question but Il ask anyways. I have 2 synths and my whole set up is connected with balanced cables and I was wondering if that is a problem. I heard if the outputs of your gear in unbalanced and you use balanced it will bring the signal down causing you to turn it up louder and raising your noise floor.
Thanks to anyone that can help

The synths are:
ROLAND XV5050 &
EMU MOPHATT

[djui5]

Yeah..the 1/4" outputs on snyths and drum machines are unbalanced/mono/TS outputs and should use TS aka mono aka instrument cables.

[rmmcel]

how about connecting my oorr into a analog mixer. should I use balanced. A mic in mono but uses a balanced connection. I know its to cancle out unwanted noise but why wouldnt you do the same for a synth???

[rmmcel]

oorr=002r

Sorry just a little dyslexic:D

[djui5]

Which outputs of the 002r are you sending to an analog mixer? It should also say in the 002's manual which outputs are balanced and which aren't. If it's a balanced output and you have a balanced input on the mixer, then you'll want to use a TRS cable aka stereo 1/4". If the output of the 002 is balanced and the mixer input is unbalanced then you could either buy a convertor or do some soldering and connect pin 3 to pin 1 to create an unbalanced cable and solder that to a TS 1/4" connector.

[dan le]

Djui5:
What about if you connect sound modules with unbalanced outputs to an analog mixer that has balanced inputs that what cables you think is preferrable, balanced or unbalanced. I have used both and I can't hear any difference.
Dan Le

[dpd]

Go balanced every chance you have - the noise floor will be lower. Additionally, the effects of the cable (construction, materials, etc) will be less. You can run far longer cables with little or no sonic degradation.

Ever wonder why all low-level signals run balanced?

[djui5]

If you have a unbalanced module and you want to plug it into a balanced mixer (that dosen't have an unbalanced input) I'd recommend using a balanced cable and on the end that goes into the sound module you should solder a TS connection onto it connecting wires 1 and 3 to the sleeve on the TS connector, wire 2 goes to the tip.

[ntimkovich]

Crazy.

I just bought the M-One XL effects box, which only has XLR input/output. The dude at the store told me that a balanced signal going into an unbalanced 1/4" jack makes no difference. The board I've got has unbalanced aux returns/ balanced sends, which prompted my question.

As soon as I get home, I'm going to try to put one output into a balanced TRS jack and one into an unbalanced TS jack (using balanced cables on both) and see if it makes a difference. Not that I don't believe you guys, but self-learning is always the best.

<time passes>

So I just thought about it, and went and checked my manual for the mixer (Yamaha MG 12/4), which states the following spec for the AUX Returns...

AUX RETURN: Phone Jack (TRS) (unbalanced: [T:hot; S:ground])

The "(TRS)" throws me off, but I'm pretty sure it's unbalanced.

Nobody panic!! I'll email Yamaha and inform them of the typo. :classic:

[djui5]

Sometimes they use a balanced connection to make 2 mono connections.....like say Aux 5,6 send being a single TRS plug where the tip is 5's hot send, the ring is 6's hot send..and the sleve is a dual ground. The same applys for inserts...so be carefull about what your pluging things into.

Let me know what Yamaha say's about their typo....

[djui5]

http://www.sweetwater.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6049


I also posted a lenghty thread here concerning balanced and unbalanced connections..you might wanna read it.

[ntimkovich]

I went home and tried a couple different configs of balanced vs. unbalanced, and I didn't hear any difference whatsoever. Perhaps Yamaha was smart enough to allow for the mismatch of cable vs. connection. Granted I don't have golden ears, but there was NO difference to me.

Still waiting to hear from Yamaha.

By the way, that's a great cable link, Randy. I'm picking up my soldering gun from my parent's house next time I'm there (it's been disused since my college days) and going to give making my own cables a go.

Any good resources for parts/wire?

[DAS]

If either end is unbalanced it will not make any difference whether you use unbalanced or balanced cable unless you do something to balance the signal.

There are some exceptions, such as when an output uses an impedance or ground compensated driver. Most synths don't have these. Some mixers do, and they usually elaborate in their manuals how to wire connections.

http://www.sweetwater.com/insync/word.php?find=ImpedanceBalancing

When I wired our Euphonix room here at Sweetwater we had a problem because we had several synths that had to have signal runs of well over 50 feet. They were unblanced and we really didn't want to use direct boxes.

I later wrote the following Tech Tip for inSync about how we accomplished the hook up. This method works pretty well in all but the worst environments.

http://www.sweetwater.com/insync/techtip.php?find=11/26/1999

[djui5]

http://www.electroniccity.com/shopping/pricelist.asp?prid=134

There's some Mogami at $0.31-38 a foot.

Full compass also sells ton's of bulk cable and Neutrix and Switchcraft connections.

Sweetwater also sells Pro Co mic cable for 18 cents a foot...this is good if you wanna go the economic route.


Neutrix and Switchcraft both make great XLR connectors...either will work fine..

[ntimkovich]

Yamaha responds, and I'm afraid I didn't read the block diagram correctly (or thoroughly). TRS plugs are not always balanced.

"

Hello and thank you for writing in. Your comments are pasted below, and the reply is underneath.

-On page 28 of the manual you state the aux RETURN connection type as the
following:
AUX RETURN: Phone Jack (TRS) (unbalanced: [T:hot; S:ground])
I believe that the connection is unbalanced therefore should be denoted as "(TS)" not "(TRS)". This is minor but a cause of some confusion.



The Aux return you mention in your message above is an unbalanded input, but the connector itself is a TRS type, though it is only using the tip and sleeve for the signal. If you look at the block diagram on page 30 of the manual you can see the connectors and their wiring.


Thanks again for writing in.

"