Best Software Package for My needs - I'm Stumped

[socrates]

Choosing your software platform is a life altering decision - Help!!!

I've looked at some of the major players out there - Cubase, Pro Tools, DP3, Logic, Sonar, SAW Pro. After a week of surfing various sites I'm still confused. It's hard to get an idea of the specifics by reading quick promo blurbs, and demos can't give you more than just an introductory feel, without spending a month playing with it.

I seriously want to move my setup to a DAW platform. Ultimatley the actual hardware platform I choose (Mac, PC) may depend on the Software I decide to go with (DP3 is Mac Only). And the Software I choose depends on if it meets my specific needs

Up to now I've used a keyboard workstation with a few other midi sound modules/keyboards, and a 4-track recorder. I'm a big time Keyboard/Sequencer fanatic, with a bent towards electronic music styles.

Obviously I need a package that allows a lot of edit capabilty for midi tracks. I'm talking about slick Midi edit/processing functions above the standard stuff. For example, I currently have the need to reverse a sequence, so that it plays backwards. I also want a package that will allow staff inversion around a selected note, (ie take all the notes in the sequence and invert them on the musical staff around a selected note.) or that will do modal shifts. For example, say I want to convert a particular sequence to a minor key, or restrict a track within a pentatonic scale, etc. The need to change the timebase has arisen as well (ie 4/4 to 2/4). On my current sequencer this meant re-sequencing the entire thing from scratch. Global event scaling, removal, shifting with key ranges would be nice too.

I also want a package that offers a complex arpeggiator either resident or as a plug in, and one that supports a premo vocoder plug-in (if one exists) to add vocal effects to an instrument track. Support of Synth Plug-ins is also a must.

Since my composition style is pattern based - I compose individual sequences, then chain them to make a song - it would be nice if the package allowed that approach rather than having to work within an entire song track, or at least let you delineate the track into segments that can be worked on at a time, and easily identified at a glance, even named.

I could go on but hopefully this is enough information to give you all an idea of what I'm looking for. Hopefully those of you experienced in the different software packages can identify the best one for me.;)

[brewer_t]

DP can handle everything you have mentioned in your post...
1. DP has 6 different editors for midi; Graphic, Notation, Event List, Score, Drum, and the new Sequence editor in DP3. The Notation editor is great for reading musicians, it differs from the Score(Quickscribe) editor which is geared more for printout. All midi tracks can be viewed at once in the Graphic editor or an individual one can be opened for each track. ANY midi track can use the Drum editor. The new Sequence editor allows you to view midi and audio tracks side by side.
2. DP has commands such as Invert Pitch, Reverse Time, Retrograde, Scale Time, etc.. I personally haven't used much, but they do allow you to select all tracks at one time. Give it a try.
3. DP3 has a "Switch Staff" option that will allow you to select notes and move them from treble to bass clef or vice versa....you just need to have a Grand Staff selected for that track.
4. DP has a Global as well as a midi plug-in for Transpose/Harmonization which allows you to define a scale, interval, key or customize your own, as well as contrain to scale and octave shifts.
5. Global event scaling, removing, and shifting can be accomplished a number of ways...My particular favorite is to use the "Search" window, define what I am looking for, then edit away!
6. Time signatures can be changed at any time and DP can calculate a time change over time.
7. DP's appreggiator can be applied as a Midi plug-in AND you can have as many as 20 on any midi track.
8. DP does support Synth plug-ins.
9. The vocoder thing might be a little tricky... DP3 does has a "trigger" plug-in that will allow you to have audio trigger defined midi events and DP can use vocoder plugs such as Orange Vocoder and one in the Pluggo package.
10. DP can work as an individual sequence (dubbed "Chunk") and allow you to arrange these into a song window, as well as assign patch changes to these for live triggering.
11. Hope this helps.....

[Petter]

Also I am voting for Digital Performer.

Here's the reason why: I believe both Cubase, Logic, Sonar and a few other programs could suit (most of) your needs. However, if you are using DP today, you are already familiar with it. I have spent many hours before getting familiar with a new program, and as they are all very good today, it's not really worth the trouble relearning, in my opinion. In addition, I've got a feeling DP beats the other programs when it comes to create variations on a given theme (which is what you try to accomplish, if I'm correct).

I'd also suggest taking a look at Max or similar programs, and combine their "composing" power with a sequencer.

When it comes to notation (if that is of importance to you) I wouldn't consider any of these programs. Instead, go for a dedicated program for notation. We at NoteHeads have several well-reputed composers who use DP for sequencing, and our own software - Igor Engraver - for creating the scores. They also use it for "humanising" the playback, as it's unequalled in the business.

After all, there are, in my opinion, no "all-in-one" solutions - a sequencer is a sequencer, a composing program (Max...) is a compoing program, and a notation program is... well... a notation program.

Yours,

Petter Terenius, NoteHeads, www.noteheads.com

[Eric]

Socrates,
There is a good discussion about some of the different software available in the "Sequencer" forum.
http://www.sweetwater.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=22

You might want to check there to see what people are saying about the various programs.


Sincerely,

Eric "twitch" Rodrigue
Sweetwater
1-800-222-4700 ext. 1278
eric_rodrigue@sweetwater.com

[TimOBrien]

Choosing software IS very subjective.

Don't just rely on the spec sheets put out by the manufacturers. Download the demos and play with them for a couple of days. You'll be able to determine the ones that make you comfortable/uncomfortable.

Don't spend your hard-earned cash until you're sure what you want to live with.....

[Eric]

Exactly! Testing out the software is a great way to see what you think. Testimonials from peers will also tell you more than the "cut and dry" specifications. Most of the software packages have the same general feature list. It's how they execute those features and the little extras that counts. The old cliche' "Never judge a book by it's cover" comes to mind.

Sincerely,
Eric "twitch" Rodrigue
Sweetwater
1-800-222-4700 ext. 1278
eric_rodrigue@sweetwater.com

[Asgardian]

Have to agree aswell!
The most important thing regarding which software package you use is how comfortable you are with the interface. If you buy, say, Logic which is probably the best software for recording both audio and midi and you find the handling too complex then your not going to get the best results.
Download Logic, Cubase 5 score, DP and even Protools then record a song using each the way you like and the one that get's the best result is your drug of choice!!
My only advice to you is that you make sure you can run Reason in the back. From what you wrote, I think it is something you'll get a kick out of!
Logic will let you run the multitude of awesome VST softsynths like Absynthe, Pro5, PPG wave, B4, etc aswell as great vocoders like the Prosonic Orange and the hundreds of other VST plugins. You also have Logic plugins and Softsamplers.

Good luck

[Eric]

Downloading the demo versions of audio software is a great idea. However, I do want to caution you on this. Demo versions are usually just that. They aren't always a good representation of how good the software is. For instance, the developers don't really offer support for the free demo version because they need to focus their attention on the customers who own the software. I tried out a demo version of a popular audio software (which will remain nameless) that I had used the full version of before and was extremely disappointed in the demo version. There were bugs and gliches and some features that I knew the actual software could do were not working at all. Luckily I already knew the software was great.
My point is to take the demo versions with a grain of salt. I think they are good to check out the interface but not necessarily the features.

Sincerely,

Eric "twitch" Rodrigue
Sweetwater
1-800-222-4700 ext. 1278
fax: 219-432-1758
email: eric_rodrigue@sweetwater.com

SweetCare - 24 Hour Support & Care - http://www.sweetwater.com/support

Sweetwater Sound Inc. - 5335 Bass Rd. - Fort Wayne, IN 46808

[ppxstnr]

I have tryed logic, sonar, nuendo and cubase. I like the steinberg products because there seems to be mor third party books and info out there. I finally found a good book on logic but it took three months to get. However that said if DP is what you know you probably will just become flustered trying to learn something new and I 've found that there are no great differences worth the hastle. I also agree that you will need more than one software program to be complete.

[Roland]

My vote would have to go to Nuendo. I have used Logic but I think it has the steepest learning curve of all the major programs. I still use DP from time to time on my Mac, but I don't think it's as intuitive as the other programs and it is also Mac only, which to me is a huge limitation.

I think SONAR XL is great, though the lack of support for VST instruments is very annoying. It is very easy to work with and has the loop features which allows you to Acidize files.

I currently use Pro Tools as my main audio editing and mastering platform, but even with the vast improvements over prior versions, it still sucks for MIDI sequencing, though there's nothing better for audio and editing/mastering IMHO.

So, I have found myself completely enamoured and enjoying Nuendo as my primary sequencing software application. After experiencing the full versions of all the majors, I think you would like Nuendo the best. It's Steinberg so you get flawless VST support. It's intuitive, easy to use, lots of support for it out there and no huge long setup issues like with some of the other programs. My only complaint is the dongle protection (though you can get around that) and the huge box it comes in that could have just as easily been half the size. Those are pretty minor complaints for such a great program. By the way, Nuendo supports ReWire and OMF so it is super cross platform compatible with other cool programs like Reason, ReCycle and such.

I'd say go with Nuendo and get a Mackie UAD-1 and TC PowerCore card set and you'll have everything you need!! :)

Good luck and have fun,
Roland

[TeeCee]

Roland:
Have you tried using a VSTi in Sonar with a VST adapter?

[shroud]

Dp3 sounds like the right one for you. As much as I am a fan of Nuendo...I still vote for DP.

[m00nchild]

i myself am in the middle of trying to decide what software to buy as i'm putting together a DAW right now.

ii use windows for my platform and sonar is most often recommended to me.

i keep reading that sonar will allow vst plug-ins to be "wrapped" in an adapter. i don't know what complications may or may nor arise from this tho. and i'm not sure what i lose by only having access to dxi plugins.

is vst just the standard and dirext-x a poor competitor?

[TeeCee]

VSI and VSTi are Steinberg standards. DirectX is a Microsoft standard and DXi is a Cakewalk standard somewhat based on DXi. You run into complications with the fact that Cakewalk and Sonic Foundry don't want to license something from a competitor (Steinberg) that can be changed at any time or dropped.

[BlackOctopus]

Quick question...what is not good about the MIDI capabilites of Pro Tools exactly ? And does Pro Tools FREE or LE work alongside REASON software ?

Thank you all.

[shroud]

BlackOctopus - the MID capabilities in ProTools are in their "infant" stage is all...where most programs out there did MIDI first then added audio, ProTools was audio first and just added MIDI about 2 years ago...

There is a couple of ways to use Reason w/ProTools Free & LE, email directly if you'd like more details!

matthew_craig@Sweetwater.com