1202 Vlz

[jjr0319]

newbie to the sweetwater boards. i am planning on purchasing a Mackie 1202 VLZ. i have been researching mixers online and in person for a month or so. this one seems to be the best fit for my applications and budget (or so i think).

on to the question: i am building a new PC and have been searching for a decent audio card. i record guitar and vocals, nothing else. for the past three years i have been recording them seperately, and may/may not continue to do so. i want a card that will have the best connections the 1202. some cards have 1/4", others have RCA's. which ones are better for my application?

one last thought: say i eventually want to record vocals and guitar at the same time? i know i would plug them into the mixer at two seperate channels. is it possible, from the 1202, to have two seperate outs on these channels going into the soundcard so i can have two seperate tracks on my recording program? or does the guitar/vox only get sent out mixed into a combined track on my recording program?

thanks in advance for the help. i have been reading about all this stuff online and am finding that is it more confusing than helpful.

[jjr0319]

oh yeah, the cards that have me particularily interested are the M-Audio Audiophile 2496 and the discontinued Echo Mia. im open to others though.

[Ted]

I'm not too familiar with the Mia, but since it's been discontinued I'm not sure it's the best way to go. The Audiophile would work fine...you can connect it to the tape ins and outs with standard RCA cables, or you can use 1/4" ins and outs with cables with RCA connectors at one end and 1/4" at the other, which are readily available as well.

Sure, you can send separate signals to each input on the card. If you pan a signal to the left it goes to one output, if you pan it to the right it goes to the other, and if you pan it straight up the middle it goes to both.

I'd probably go 1/4"...that way you can use the alternate 3/4 outputs, which will allow you to monitor what you've already recorded as you overdub.

-Ted

[jjr0319]

thanks ted for the quick response.

i guess you're right about the discontinued mia, doesnt make sense to buy.

do you know of any soundcards similar to the mia (in terms of having the 1/4" ins/outs on the card instead of a breakout box)?

also, i emailed echo before posting here, and they responded saying i could plug the mixer into the card through the main outs of the mixer. is this correct also?

lastly, as far as seperating the channels go. i think i may have worded it wrong. if using a higher end card with, lets say 10 ins/outs. i was wondering if the 1202 has seperate outputs for each channel. for example, i have a mic hook into channel 1 and a guitar in channel 2. could a line come out from channel 1 to input 1 on the breakout box, and channel 2 to input 2 on the box? or would i need a higher end digital mixer for this?

thanks for the help i really appreciate it.

[lvjazzman]

I don't know if the VLZ boards have direct outs or not, however, if you insert a TS unbalanced cable one click (not all the way in) into the insert jack on a Mackie, they work as a direct out, without disturbing the signal going through the board.

[jjr0319]

lvjazzman
thanks for that info. thats exactly what i was looking for. i was having trouble trying to explain what i meant. glad you understood. do you know of any mixers (preferably mackie) that have direct outs for each channel?

thanks again, i really appreciate it.

[jjr0319]

lvjazzman
upon reading that reply again, i'm getting confused.

"if you insert a TS unbalanced cable one click (not all the way in) into the insert jack on a Mackie, they work as a direct out, without disturbing the signal going through the board."

does "direct out" mean that the mixer settings will have no effect on the sound. like if i changed the EQ or Volume on the mixer, it wouldnt do anything on the recording? so it would just be the same as plugging the guitar or mic directly into the soundcard?

[Ted]

do you know of any soundcards similar to the Mia (in terms of having the 1/4" ins/outs on the card instead of a breakout box)?

I don't know off the top of my head, but is there a reason you don't want a breakout box? The Delta 44 and 66 cards from M Audio, for instance, have four 1/4" ins and outs on a breakout box at very reasonable prices. I've always found breakout boxes to be more convenient than having the jacks right on the card.


also, i emailed echo before posting here, and they responded saying i could plug the mixer into the card through the main outs of the mixer. is this correct also?

Sure, you could, although then you wouldn't be able to monitor what you've already recorded because that same signal would be mixed in with whatever you're recording and sent back into the computer.


could a line come out from channel 1 to input 1 on the breakout box, and channel 2 to input 2 on the box? or would i need a higher end digital mixer for this?

As was mentioned below, you can pick direct outs off of the inserts. If you don't want to do it that way, though, you don't need a digital mixer...there are plenty of analog mixers, like the Spirit M-series mixer and the Mackie 1642 and 1604 mixers, that have direct outs on some or all channels.


does "direct out" mean that the mixer settings will have no effect on the sound. like if i changed the EQ or Volume on the mixer, it wouldnt do anything on the recording? so it would just be the same as plugging the guitar or mic directly into the soundcard?

Depending on how the direct outs are implemented, they may come before or after the EQ and/or fader (in the case of the inserts on the 1202, I'm fairly certain they're pre-EQ and pre-fader). It's still not the same as plugging a guitar or mic directly into the soundcard, though, as you're still adding gain with the preamp in the mixer and most soundcards aren't equipped to take a microphone or guitar signal directly (for that matter, it's usually not the best idea to plug a guitar right into a mixer either). Running a keyboard, or something like a Pod, right into a soundcard usually isn't a problem (and may be preferable to running through a mixer first for that matter), and some interface do have microphone- and/or instrument-level inputs so you can run into them without needing a mixer (such as Digidesign's M Box and Digi 002 interfaces, Aardvark's Direct Pro 24/96 and Q10, and MOTU's 828mkII and 896HD among others).

-Ted

[jjr0319]

thanks a lot ted, you cleared up a lot of confusion. upon checking out the 1202 manual, it says that i can plug into the inserts two ways for a direct out. the direct outs are post-trim, post-lowcut, and pre-eq.

1) "one click" - d/o with no signal interruption to master

2) "two clicks" - d/o with signal interruption to master

what does this mean? do i want a signal interruption?

i have been checking out the Delta 44. seems to be the way to go.

you mentioned not to plug a guitar directly into the mixer. i will be miking my amp for my electric, so thats not a problem, but i also record an acoustic electric. should i invest in a direct box? is it ok to plug a direct box into the mixer?

i dont know why but for some reason i want a mixer instead of one of those other interfaces.

thanks again ted, and everyone at sweetwater for being so darn helpful

[Ted]

You probably don't want the signal to the master to be interrupted. If it is, you won't hear it as you're recording. It may or may not be a big deal depending on the source, but typically you'll want to be able to control the monitoring level of what you're recording relative to what you've already recorded.

If you plug your acoustic electric right into the mixer and it sounds good, then it is good. People often to prefer to use a direct box of some sort...especially one of the ones that's designed specifically for acoustic guitars, such as the ones from Roland (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AD3/), Tech 21 (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AcousticDI/), or Yamaha (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AGStomp/) or others that offer more tone-shaping capabilities such as Avalon's U5 (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/U5/).

Please don't hesitate to call me (or you sales engineer here if you already have one) if you have more specific questions or would rather talk in person...

-Ted

[Kurzwiel Karl]

JJR,

I've been reading this thread and I'm curious, if you're not planning on recording more than one or two tracks at a time, why the need for the 1202? You could probably get away with one of Mackie's 4 channel mixers, or even maybe a less expensive brand like the Berringer.

I've been using an Echo Layla 20 bit for some time now. It's not the latest or the greatist, but it still allows me 8 in and 8 outs. I also have a Mackie 1604 that connects to the Layla. This gives me the first 8 inputs (channel 1-8) and go directly to 8 outputs on the Mackie into the 8 ins on the Layla. The Layla connects to a PCI card via a SCSi type cablein my computer giving me input to the computer and back out to the Layla, which inturn has 8 outputs that I run back into my Mackie starting with Channel 9 through 16

Another option might be a stand alone DAW. I know that there are several smaller units that might work for your applications. Are you multitracking your guitar and harmonizing your vocals, or just 2 tracks, one for guitar and one for vocal?

[Ted]

The 1202 actually is the smallest of Mackie's higher-end mixers.

Although there are other options that you may want to consider, as has been mentioned...Focusrite's TwinTrak Pro (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TwinTrakPro/) is another good option. It's a two-channel preamp/EQ/compressor that also has DI inputs and a monitoring section. It's a little bit more than the 1202, but it's a higher-quality unit that may be better suited to what you're looking to do. And the price may come out more even if you're considering direct boxes.

-Ted

[Kurzwiel Karl]

Ted,

I was only curious as to why he needed 12 channels if at most he'll be recording 2 concurrently. Seems like a lot of mixer for the job.

So you're telling us that there is a difference in quality between Mackies little 4 channel mixer and their higher end equipment like the VLZ line? What exactly are the differences? Different preamps? Different electronics?

I still think that for his needs, JJR can get by with less. (My humble opinion only) What kind of monitors are you using JJR?

[Ted]

I don't think that he needs twelve channels, but the preamps in the VLZ series are superior to the preamps in the rest of Mackie's mixers, and even though he wouldn't be using all of the channels on the mixer I still think he'd be hard pressed to find a better pair of preamps, along with the routing and monitoring capabilities tha the 1202 offers, in that price range.

Also, it never hurts to have a few extra channels available. There are only four mic/mono inputs on the 1202 (the remaining eight are configured as four stereo line-only channels), so there's not too much going to "waste".

-Ted

[Kurzwiel Karl]

Thanks Ted, I've always wondered if there was a big difference or not. And I too tend to buy more rather than less than I need.