Which monitors? [Archive] - Sweetwater Forums

notomorrow

04-03-2005, 07:15 PM

I've returned at least two TR8's due to amplifier problems and tweeter buzzing. Picked up the BX8's because they have a much broader frequency response and more control over the sound if you're dealing at all with control room acoustic issues and don't have the money to build or resolve them completely.

The biggest thing I like about the BX8's is their bass response. With the TR8's, I was over-compensating with sub 150Hz frequencies, which became very apparent when I first hooked-up the BX8s. M-Audio is a good company withe great products.

HoneyBadger

07-31-2007, 04:57 PM

quote: "I was over-compensating with sub 150Hz frequencies"

Hi, I was wondering what you meant with that line.
Do you mean the sub-bass frequencies are just way too much on these TR8's??
If so, I second that.

Secondly, I want to ask the poster to cnsider if he/she Really needs 8"
8-inch is loud.. And I do mean loud.. You could be struggling with lots of "sub-bass" wich can be very annoying when monitoring.
I own the TR8XL's, and Im not happy with them. If I could somehow
trim down the volume of the bass (wich is too loud) it' would be a great monitor.
RIght now, they just aren't. The bass overwhelems the mids and highs.

elwoodblues1969

07-31-2007, 06:01 PM

My experiences with M-audio products may or may not add confusion to your quiry,but I have been disappointed with every M-audio product I have ever owned,including a couple of pairs of monitors in the past.
I have always found Samson products to have louder & cleaner amps in them in general,for less money.
I am of the opinion that M-Audio is overpriced for what you get.

I am not familiar with Event speakers,but I would rather take a chance with them,over M-Audio.

I don't know how good the amps are in the Alesis M1's are,but they seem like solid monitors & they have room mod controls on the back and they are priced right,so given those features,it seems like the Alesis M1's are ideal for what you are looking for.I'm looking into getting a pair of 520's myself.

You mentioned that you are interested in 8" monitors.I was not sure if you are aware that the Alesis M1 series do not make an 8"?

I'm assuming that you were referring to the Alesis M1 620's maybe?
Well,the largest driver in this series is 6.5,just in case you were not aware.
Size is not that important a factor with regard to bass response,but if you want exceptional bass response in a smaller package,then you will pay extra for it.
I'm sure talking to a Sweetwater rep about monitors is the most prolific way for you to narrow your search down effectively.

Happy monitoring.:cool:

YoungRob

07-31-2007, 07:58 PM

Why not try the Yamaha HSM5's?

From the reviews I've seen they're great.

I've heard the HSM8's and was planning on purchasing a pair of them but I think I could mix better with the HSM5's since I'm in a small room.

mikelava

08-01-2007, 12:12 AM

I would avoid the M-Audio BX8A. I just bought a pair from Sweetwater and the tweeter stopped working in one speaker for no apparent reason. I never turned them up loud, as I live in an apartment with neighbors on all sides of me. I was simply listening to a CD at low volume when the tweeter just died. I sent the speakers back to Sweetwater today for the Yamaha HS50M's. I hope they work better for me. The M-Audios were a little too big for my space anyway.

M-Audio's build quality is suspicious to me now.

Kevyn

08-12-2007, 01:35 AM

I like M-Audio BX8's but if your are truly looking for a flat response with a good supply of bass then I would advise you to look at the Samson Rubicon R8a's.

These are very accurate monitors and they use a ribbon tweeter and while its not the same as the one you would get with using a set of Adams they are about as close as you can get and they sound excellent!

I own a set of the 6.5" Rubicons and plan on adding the matching 10" sub but my mixes have improved dramatically since buying them. Trust me you can not go wrong with these and the 3yr warranty doesn't hurt either!

Hope this helps

mikelava

08-12-2007, 06:01 PM

I finally got my Yamaha HS50M's! They blow the M-Audio BX8A, Event ALP5 and most other monitors in their price range out of the water. No contest. You will NOT find a better pair of monitors for $400 a pair.

elwoodblues1969

08-12-2007, 10:57 PM

Mike,

I have yet to hear either one of these brands and I am wondering if you have heard the Alesis M1 620's?
I'm really curious to know,as I have been doing online comparisions & the Alesis M1's features look exceptional online,even more so than the Yamaha's.
I noticed that the Alesis monitors have the Yamaha's beat by 60 watts per pair,the woofers are bigger & the Alesis have clip light bars-whereas the Yamaha's do not and both of these brand of monitors are the same price.

Of course sonic clarity is the compelling factor and both of these brands need to be heard in person,obviously,but the features of the Alesis M1 620's certainly have my attention and they seem to be really worth looking into and I would like your input on the Alesis 620's if you have heard them.

I'm really disadvantaged in terms of having oppurtunities to listen to 1/2 the monitors that exist between what is available online,vs. what's actually on display in stores,due to the area I live in.
I have to drive an hour in any direction just to test monitors out & I just don't find it worthwhile anymore.

Elwood

mikelava

08-13-2007, 10:22 AM

While I've never heard the Alesis 620's, I did own the first release of the M1 Actives several years ago. These had a 6.5" woofer and 1" tweeter. The power rating was similar to the 620's, I think. I liked the M1 Actives quite a bit, actually. I found their sound to be quite faithful to what I was mixing. I traded them towards a pair of Mackie HR624's, which I regretted later.

I am in the same situation as you, where as I can't audition monitors in person very easily either. I wish I could have though, as it would have saved me a lot of headaches. Over the past few months, I've gotten two pairs of the Event ALP5's, both of which were returned due to a loud buzzing in the woofers. Next came the M-Audio BX8A's, which sounded great. Not sure if they were 100% accurate for mixing though. Better as tracking monitors, I think. One tweeter decided to stop working for no apparent reason. I never turned them up loud, they just decided to break. I suspect it was poor quality control.

My fourth pair of monitors are the Yamaha HS50M's. Even though they are the smallest in size and power of all the others I've owned, I like them the best. I don't need to blast my mixes, so having a lot of power isn't as big a concern for me as it is for others. I find the sound quality to be above and beyond all those other monitors. No contest. One area where the Yamaha's shine is the almost three-dimensional quality music takes on. There is excellent stereo imaging, but also incredible front-to-back sound staging. I've never heard such detail in monitors of this price range before. Yes, having only a five inch woofer means there isn't a ton of low end, but what is there is very tight and accurate. If you need more, there is a companion subwoofer available.

I couldn't be more thrilled than I am now with these Yamaha's. I also liked the Alesis monitors, but they didn't blow me away like these HS50M's. You would probably be very satisfied with either pair. The only thing negative I've heard about Alesis monitors is that they blow their amps pretty easily if driven hard. But who knows how badly those users were torturing their monitors.

Best of luck in your selection!

elwoodblues1969

08-13-2007, 02:22 PM

Thanks for the response Mike-much appreciated.
I don't really need excessive volumes out of a monitor either,especially late at night-my Adam A7's are just to damn loud to play later at night,even with the volume turned up to only an 8th of the way.In fact,the volume cuts off below the -30dB mark,which makes them useless when I need to have my levels moderate at night.
I don't plan on owning the 620's anyway,as the 520's come with a new Fusion & they seem perfect for late night monitoring.

This may be just wishful thinking,but it seems that a good rule of thumb,is to
seek out monitors that have higher output,as logistically,it should mean that
if a monitor has higher wattage-the amp is cleaner and the driver components
are more durable to handle the higher wattage.

This does hold true as far as the Samson monitors vs. M-audio.
I owned the M-Audio DX4's and the Samson 40a's and the Samson's have stronger,cleaner amps and more durable tweeter materials than the M-Audio's.

Needless to say,I still own the Samson 40a's & I think they are unrivaled in overall quality in the $150 price range.
I have two pairs of the 40a's-one as part of my home theatre system & the other as pc desktop monitors.
The one thing I do not like about the Alesis M1's is that there is no detailed spec info for the amps,but then,quite of few companies leave things out such as %THD & SPL's.

Kind regards,

Thom(aka Elwood)

dpd

08-13-2007, 11:13 PM

AV123 (http://www.av123.com/products_category_brand.php?section=speakers&brand=55)

I have a friend in MD that does a lot of measurements for this company and he recommends the X-LS. I trust his ears big time.

elwoodblues1969

08-14-2007, 09:45 AM

jpleong

08-14-2007, 02:19 PM

And not to sound insulting to you, Elwood, but the current "nearfield monitor" craze began with bookshelf speakers and the "hi-fi" environment. A number of the venerable studio headphones, as well, began their long careers as consumer products designed to such "professional" standards that they were adopted by the pro-audio industry.

As I've pointed out before, a number of studio monitor companies, such as Tannoy, have a consumer line. I'd wager that a number of these bookshelf speakers have superior linearity, wider imaging, lower distortion, and tighter frequency tolerance than what's available in the budget category of nearfield monitors. Actually, I'll go ahead and make that claim -having listened to a number of models from both categories.

A number of companies are still in the midst of breaking into the Pro Audio market whilst still being a "consumer" brand. My mind immediately shifts to headphone companies like Ultrasone or Grado. I've listened to a pair of Grados (designed for the really snobby hi-fi market) that absolutely blew away my nearfield setup at home.

And dpd is a former Broadcast Engineer. My experience is to trust his experience.

JP

And isn't this thread originally from 2003?

a_mistro

08-14-2007, 03:54 PM

Hello. I am using the behringer truth 2031a monitors. Im also running vegas 4.0 and cubase sx1 on pc with motu 2408 mk1 and an art pro mpa tube preamp. Is there a way of wiring my monitors where I have control of the volume from an external device? As of right now, I have to turn the volume down from the master volume in the software. Is there a way I can turn it down without touch the software? If not, what can I buy to solve this problem. All advice is welcomed. Thanks -Jay

elwoodblues1969

08-14-2007, 06:57 PM

Hi Jpleong,

You bring up some very interesting points,but do we really want to go back in time to the days when bookshelfs were used to do mixdowns?

I mean,yes of course,hi-fi bookshelfs have come a long way as well and if bookshelfs are every bit as appropriate to use in the studio as you say they are,then why even go to a music store to buy monitors then?

I'm not saying that those hi-fi speakers don't have sonic clarity,but are you telling me that there is no difference between bookshelfs & studio monitors now?
Well if that is in fact true,the one difference that does exist,is that for the most part,hi-fi bookshelfs tend to be more expensive than studio monitors you buy in a music store-which is why my entire apartment is furnished with nothing but studio monitors all around.
3 and a half years ago,I bought my first pair of studio monitors which were the Samson 50a's & I was so impressed by the quality and price,that I stuck with studio monitors ever since and have not looked back.

Maybe this gives me a biased opinion,but when I think back to all the hi-fi systems I've had over the years and how much I over-paid for them,I have not been able to even look at home hi-fi ever again.

My opinions are also fueled by everything I've read and also by everything I've heard from music store salesmen and as objective of a subject as studio recording is,I personally much prefer to go the studio monitor route.

Elwood

jpleong

08-14-2007, 09:11 PM

jpleong

08-14-2007, 09:52 PM

Elwood, what I'm trying to say is not to discount the suggestion of people who may have more experience and history than you based on the "class" or "color" of the suggestion made. Dpd's opinion, as well as yours and mine, are just that: opinions. It's the experience that really gives weight to the opinion, something we hope the people advising us have got.

People still mix with "bookshelf" speakers! I've read of a number of top producers and engineers who, when given the choice to use the next-best-thing, will stick to their white-coned Yamaha NS-10s. My courses in multitrack recording were taught with Genelecs, Haflers, "bookshelf" NS-10s, and the dreaded Auratones.

To put things in greater perspective (though, certainly not in the spirit of the original post), I freelance in an industry that thinks nearfield monitors are toys used only to make sure the tracking is done right. To many classical engineers, the kind of "studio monitor" we're used to seeing in a project to mid-level studio is no better than the bookshelf speaker we can purchase from Crutchfield. If you're not mixing in an acoustically well-designed control room, with monitors specially designed for the room, within a certain dB tolerance, you're just kidding yourself. Of course, we know that such rigidity is tantamount to snobbery.

While I would never steer an audio student (because we're all still students) towards the consumer bookshelf speaker, I'm also not so arrogant to assume that just because a speaker in a box says "studio monitor" that it's instantly better or any more special. Again, experience counts.

You're experience with over-priced Hi-Fi is quite valuable and I think you've made a good decision to not look back. However, I can tell you from numerous listening experiences that a lot of the budget studio monitors on the market (most of them not carried by Sweetwater, by the way) sound no better or even worse than Hi-Fi systems. I'm not talking about sounding beautiful, either. These budget monitors have either overhyped bass, piercing treble or some combination of the two all whilst claiming flat frequency response, quality design, anechoic measurements, etc... I've learned to trust people and experience more than company literature and labels on a box.

JP

dpd

08-14-2007, 10:08 PM

Hi Dpd,

The X-LS's appear to be an exceptional bookshelf speaker & I'll take your word for it that your friend has an acute sense of hearing,but the person that started the thread is looking to do mixdowns in a studio with studio monitors,& not bookshelf speakers designed for home stereo use.

Studio monitors are set up differently,as they are designed to give a linear,flat,uncolored sound to accurately translate the source material and you suggesting home stereo speakers is taking things in a entirely different direction.
I certainly do not mean to come across as insulting and I hope you don't take it the wrong way,but I am unclear as to why exactly, you suggested bookshelfs?

Elwood

Elwood - no offense taken... however, I disagree with you. Personally, I don't see much difference between so-called 'Studio Monitors' and home stereo 'Mini-Monitor' speakers

A bookshelf, such as the AV123's, can be an accurate speaker - it's the quality of the execution of the design that matters.

Audiophile speakers have been doing for decades what 'studio monitors' claim to do: attempting to achieve the flat, uncolored sound that all speakers (should) ascribe to. To wit: the BBC-designed LS3/5's (designed specifically for studio monitoring, BTW), DCM Time-windows (probably the 1st time-aligned monitor), Wilson WATTs, et al.

While many a record was mixed on monitors of dubious quality, the audiophile speaker industry was actively pursuing such items as crossover performance, acoustic beaming stability through the crossover region, Thiel-Small alignments, enclosure resonances, baffle diffraction, cone breakup, ferrofluidics, line sources, active crossovers/multi-amping, and more. Most, but not all, of these design concepts/techniques have made it to the Studio Monitor industry.

Flat magnitude response won't necessarily make a good speaker - that's one reason why one sees reviews of energy-time curves of a speaker's performance.

I've heard some terrible-sounding speakers that are touted as 'Studio Monitors' and the most ear-opening experience I've had in decades was listening to a pair of AR-2's (a 60's-era bookshelf) driven with a room-corrected DSP active crossover with killer electronics, placed correctly in a well-designed room.

My point is simply that good sound can come from many different types of speakers - regardless of the focus of the manufacturer's marketing.

mzuela

08-17-2007, 12:05 PM

Greetings Sweetwater Forum! I stumbled upon this thread while poking around, and felt compelled to reply, not on the current (and impressively articulate) debate over monitors vs. bookshelve speakers, but to another question posed here, the only one seemingly left unanswered: HOW THE HECK ARE THE ALESIS M1's??

Despite everyone's questions about them, it seem that no one has really given these puppies much time or consideration, judging by the lack of responses to all the questions about them here, and the lack of customer comments on sales pages. Last year I was in the market for the best near field monitors for $400 or less. A VERY tall order to fill. I walked out of my local megastore with a pair of KRK RP-5's and a sub, which I returned the next day because the sub was faulty. I then spent some time A-B testing 3 different pairs: Alesis M1 Active 620's (not the MKII but the newer 620's), those KRK RP-5's, and the Yamaha HS50M. First of all, the Alesis are much bigger and heavier overall, with 6.5" woofers instead of 5" for the other 2. Again this was about bang for my buck. I wasn't impressed with the KRK's and moved quickly over to the Yamaha. They sounded pretty impressive. Until I tried the Alesis! The Alesis absolutely blew both others out of the water. Clear, tight, crisp sound over the entire spectrum, without sounding harsh or overly emphasizing any particular frequency. By comparison the other 2 competitors sounded muddy and vague, like something in the recording was missing. I have used the Alesis for a while now, and I couldn't be happier with them. I have them rather close to the wall in a very small room, and the adjustments on the back have proven very useful to achieve a good flat sound with my less-than-ideal space. Again, had I walked in with a cool grand, I wouldn't have bought these. But to walk out of the store with a pair of these for $350, I definitely felt I got the best possible product for the money. I would recommend these over the Yamaha's without hesitation. Hope this helps!! :cool:

elwoodblues1969

08-17-2007, 06:40 PM

I just took notice of the original date of the intial post & I then realized Honeybadger is the one that resurrected this old post-which is cool,because it sparked some interesting exchanges about some aspects of monitors.

It's nice to find out that there is someone besides me that has taken an interest in Alesis monitors and even bought them & loved them!

It just seems that Alesis has the worst reputation over another other company because you really have to dig in deep just to find reviews on Alesis products.

It also seems to me that once a particular company comes out with a consistent string of exceptional products in a particular category,then everything that company manufactures whether it's an audio interface or a keyboard, then that company becomes very popular to the general public on a mass scale & purchases are made almost without much question & other companies are ignored because of a flawed product here and there.

I think that some people are overzealous with expectations of exceptional quality-seemingly striving for super high end quality under $500.

It's nice to hear some good feedback from here about Alesis monitors and if Alesis has gone downhill as much as alot of people say that it has,it would stand to reason that Alesis or (Numark) would go under,fold up & disappear.

I saw a picture of someone's studio set up on www.kara-moon.com & this guy had about $10,000 worth of gear and something like 5 or 6 keyboards,which included the Alesis Fusion.
Since this guy has this much money to invest in his studio and he could have just about anything out there and he chooses to include a Fusion,I think that says alot about this keyboard and validates the "bang for your buck" factor in terms of Alesis products.

Thanks for sharing your input Mzuela,it certainly helped me out.:cool:

a_mistro

08-29-2007, 01:00 PM

a_mistro]Hello. I am using the behringer truth 2031a monitors. Im also running vegas 4.0 and cubase sx1 on pc with motu 2408 mk1 and an art pro mpa tube preamp. Is there a way of wiring my monitors where I have control of the volume from an external device? As of right now, I have to turn the volume down from the master volume in the software. Is there a way I can turn it down without touch the software? If not, what can I buy to solve this problem. All advice is welcomed. Thanks -Jay

jpleong

08-29-2007, 02:10 PM

Hi a_mistro, something like the Samson C-Control would be perfect for your application.

JP

jpleong

08-31-2007, 10:30 AM

And, as a cap-off to the bookshelf vs studio monitor discussion, I finally found the reference that so emboldened me to re-think what constitutes a "studio monitor." Many moons ago, I discovered that Bob Katz uses Reference 3a speakers. These are "bookshelf" speakers taken to the extreme ($2500!!!) used in a professional setting. Not that I could afford these particular speakers...

JP

dpd

08-31-2007, 05:12 PM

last I knew, Mr. Katz is using the Lipinski L-707's (http://www.lipinskisound.com/l707.aspx) in his main mastering room. So, are these considered 'studio monitors'? ;)

elwoodblues1969

08-31-2007, 11:03 PM

And the point of this discussion is paying 6 times more for Lipinski's than say,the Adam A7's?
Does this mean that Lipinski speakers are 6 times more superior than the Adams?
Yeah,I know-the point is,is that there are bookshelfs that are adequate for studio use,but what is the point of overpaying for prestigious,trendy high end stereo equipment?Just so a person could brag about the fact that they own the same equipment that artists like Madonna & Eric Clapton use?

I prefer not to piss away my money by purchasing the best that "Best Buy"has to offer,or by buying some specialized pristine equipment from some obscure online company that caters to celebrities & millionares.

The whole point of buying studio monitors in a music store,is to buy into basic,bare bone quality speaker components & amps,avoiding all the extra bells & whistles found in home hifi equipment that you pay extra for,such as
custom veneer finishes,paint jobs,cabinet coverings,remote controls,various designs to match your living room motifs & all that horse-s**t.

Point in fact is this; if you spend $200 on a pair of Alesis m1 520's or a pair of Samson 50a's,versus a pair of bookshelfs & an amp for the same amount of money that you bought from Circuit City-which do you think is going to give you a better mix?
If you try to spend $200 on a studio set up by going to Wal-Mart,not only is it going to sound like a train wreck,but the audio coming from your keyboard is going to blow up your shelf stereo in a matter of hours after you first bought the frichen thing.

If you spend enough money on a bookshelf stereo to give you the same sonic quality & durablity of a pair of Alesis's,then you've spent more than twice as much.
You will never in your lifetime,walk into a retail store anywhere in this country,and find a home stereo system for a $1,000 ,that will accomplish what the Adam A7's can do.
You don't have to have long years of experience in a proffessional studio to figure that one out.
This is why I will NEVER use bookshelfs in a studio.

jpleong

09-01-2007, 03:56 PM

I totally agree with this:

Point in fact is this; if you spend $200 on a pair of Alesis m1 520's or a pair of Samson 50a's,versus a pair of bookshelfs & an amp for the same amount of money that you bought from Circuit City-which do you think is going to give you a better mix?
If you try to spend $200 on a studio set up by going to Wal-Mart,not only is it going to sound like a train wreck,but the audio coming from your keyboard is going to blow up your shelf stereo in a matter of hours after you first bought the frichen thing.

That, I think, is a great write-up! Bravo, Elwood! I think, in our heated argument, our definitions of bookshelf speakers differ. When I think bookshelf, I think separate speakers a consumer shops around for and pairs to an amp he's also spent plenty of time shopping around for. I think you're referring more to all-in-one or component speaker systems like those available from AIWA or Sony (yes, I know they're the same company!).

Of course...

The whole point of buying studio monitors in a music store,is to buy into basic,bare bone quality speaker components & amps,avoiding all the extra bells & whistles found in home hifi equipment that you pay extra for,such as
custom veneer finishes,paint jobs,cabinet coverings,remote controls,various designs to match your living room motifs & all that horse-s**t.

Instead, we replace the "bells and whistles" with "single cast aluminum faceplates" and "concentric drivers" and "accelerated ribbon technology" and "ferro-fluid cooled titanium drivers" and "passive radiators" and on and on... :banana: no marketing hype? yeah, right!

JP

dpd

09-01-2007, 07:32 PM

The point is to pay what you can afford for sound quality that you believe is still of value. If one is buying audio equipment simply due to the price, or because some 'famous' persons use it, then one simply isn't doing their homework.

The price/performance ratio of essentially any so-called 'high-end' item relative to a mass-market item is NEVER linear. The price paid is always exponentially more - for a large number of reasons. Among them: small production runs, high labor cost, amortization of the design costs, higher material costs, etc.

When I heard my 1st $100K stereo system at the CES in Chicago in the 1980's did I think it was 100x better than a $1K system? No. But it WAS better, in ever imaginable parameter.

Just because one cannot or chooses not to afford something does not mean it doesn't provide value or improved performance.

elwoodblues1969

09-01-2007, 09:41 PM

Instead, we replace the "bells and whistles" with "single cast aluminum faceplates" and "concentric drivers" and "accelerated ribbon technology" and "ferro-fluid cooled titanium drivers" and "passive radiators" and on and on... :banana: no marketing hype? yeah, right!

JP[/QUOTE]

I agree that marketing hype can be found everywhere and no where is it more evident than in Behringer products,for example.
However though,there is still alot more junk to sift through on the home stereo market,than the music production market and I personally have had an overall better experience looking to music stores for all my home audio needs.

A person still needs to know exactly what they are buying and if you make a well informed purchase in a music store,overall,I think a person can do better in a music store in terms of bang for the buck.

This is why I stopped buying home entertainment products altogether 3 years ago & have never looked back since.

And just so you are aware,Adam holds a patent for thier "accelerated ribbon technology" as it's an improvement on an old design-of which they go into meticulous detail about-which is NOT hype.

If you'll notice,Behringer products are clearly nothing but hype,because they never provide the specific technical details to back up thier claims of there so-called high fidelity.With Behringer's ad jargain such as "special,beefed-up Bugera woofers"-it's obvious that they are hiding something & if you contact Behringer with tech inquiries-they'll ignore you.

Of course,all you have to do is look at the ridiculously vast differences in price between Behringer & Adam.

If you have ever bothered to take the time to read through both the Behringer website vs. the Adam website thoroughly,you would see that Adam is not hype.
In the case of the Adam's,there is no bells & whistles or hype and I can attest to that because I am an owner of Adams.

Go try telling any studio engineer that owns a pair of Adams that they are hype & I guarantee they'll laugh in your face.

jpleong

09-02-2007, 02:30 AM

Heh. I wasn't trying to be specific there, Elwood. Each monitor company has their unique "selling point." The folks who use Adams, I'm sure, would understand what I mean just as the folks that I know who use Tannoy Concentrics and Super Tweeters (also patented) know what I mean. And, yeah, they'd probably laugh at my face because I'm kind of a funny looking guy.

And as you've clearly pointed out, Behringer has too-good-to-be-true price as their selling point. Pieces of JUNK!!!

JP