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View Full Version : indie MIDI composer needs help



ash.k
09-19-2003, 12:38 AM
Hi, my name's Ash, and I've just worked my way through the Sweetwater catalogue and forums in search of some clarity on the most efficient studio setup. I was hoping you might be able to help me, or point me in the right direction.
I'm a singer, songwriter, percussionist, and engineer, mostly self-taught on a low budget with a few short courses along the way. I'm part of a duo with a keyboard player and there's a fair overlap in duties with regards to songwriting and style decisions but it's mostly a mixture of filmscore, jazz beats, rock-fusion bass, classical piano and percussion and some ethnic elements thrown in - King Crimson meets Jean Michael Jarre and Martin Denny at John Zorn's place.
Here's my setup: we do everything in MIDI, we have an Edirol UM-1 connecting a Technics workstation synth to a 500mhz G3 imac with 256mb RAM and we record the MIDI and audio onto a partition of the system drive. We use ProTools Free (did I say 'low-budget'?, I meant 'No Budget') for all sequencing and recording with the audio out from the back of the Technics synth going into the little mic input on the side of the imac.
Through experimentation I've found that to get the most accurate audio reproduction of the original sound I must record each instrument (channel) individually and then duplicate it into 3 stereo pairs and then adjust the pan controls of each channel till my ears tell me it sounds like the real thing, then mix it down to a single stereo pair. This goes for all the instruments and then I do submixes of each section, ie: all percussion, all backing orchestration and choirs, etc... then mix it all to a final mix. I've already run a noise gate on each before mixdown and eq'd each instrument onboard the synth to perfection before recording.
The drums are done by recording me playing acoustic drums on a small tape recorder, which I then painstakingly transcribe into MIDI and then add additional layers of ethnic and orchestra percussion where applicable and then adjust the velocities and feel by randomising to give a more natural but humanly tight sound.
I make the sounds onboard the synth by toying with filters and fx with an ear to getting the most natural and warm sounds possible - I think a piano or string section is good when I feel it embracing me through the headphones. It takes months to get a sound right.
We monitor the MIDI compositions and makes changes along the way using the Sherwood hi-fi my parents gave me, which works quite well, but I've found the imac speakers are excellent for monitoring mids, especially for eq.
You'll have to excuse my verbosity, but the punchline is coming.
As you can see we do everything the wrong way.
But since we plan to make a little cash from our upcoming album release I was hoping you might be able to tell me how the average serious DIY professional produces their work.
If I get a good quality audio interface, do I still need to record each instrument separately and then duplicate and stereo pan them? Cos it's really time-consuming.
Here's what I envisage as my ideal setup: MIDI drum kit triggering my custom made kits that consist of multiple layers of sounds while I jam live with the keyboard player who is playing real sampled orchestra strings and the whole thing is being recorded to MIDI in a sequencer made especially for MIDI ready for us to tweak and add bass and other parts and live vocal/s that all playback in sync and we can monitor the whole thing with headphones. And, a plugin that converts pitch to MIDI so I can 'sing' in the violin solos and melodies and harmonies (does such a thing exist?)
My main desire is to be able to make my own, or buy excellent sounds and have them all eq'd and layered, so they sound great live and we can do jams like I mentioned above and be able to expertly and easily tweak sounds on the computer screen instead of having to slouch over a hot and badly designed keyboard interface for hours.
So can I use, like 30 sampled (and created) instruments in MIDI playback with a software sampler using my Technics keyboard and (future) MIDI drums as controllers, or do I have to have outboard sound modules?
So, in conclusion: I want to make diverse music using any instrument or sound I feel like putting in, I want to be able to play them live with the drums and keyboard simultaneously and write MIDI notes with my voice and I want complete control over the envelopes and fx of each instrument, then be able to record at higher quality than I can now and be able to do it all with intuitive software, easily and without heaps of overdubs - like it'd be nice to have the drums all recorded to separate audio tracks at once.

I don't now about you, but I'm exhausted, I hope my overall idea is relatively clear. And I plan to set aside about 10,000 to 15,000 AUD, (about half that in USD).

Regards,

ash.:scared:

Alex Arnold
09-19-2003, 08:31 AM
Wow, now thats a complex setup. The music that you are doing sounds very interesting, I would love to hear a sample of it....does your group have a website or mp3 clips? I have a few ideas for you. I would love to talk to you about your bands needs. Give me a call and we can figure out what will work best for what you and your friend are trying to accomplish. :)

ash.k
09-25-2003, 03:59 AM
Thanks for the reply, No mp3's as yet, but you can check out the rough mock-up of the website at
http://sre.joint.net.au
This is just a temporary location, domain and layout while we finish our album and get the real site together.
I'd love to give you a call, but I live in Australia, which prompts me to ask - do you ship internationally?
As far as mp3's and stuff, we're doing the final arrangements and we're about a quarter of the way through that, still gotta finish - probably within 2 weeks max, then do the vocals and final mixdown, some testing, then launch the whole project on the website, get the album pressed as a short run and so on: about a month/6 weeks till it's all done.
Re: buying stuff, I'm really interested in Logic and using it's sampler and sampled sounds to make music. So a breif question - at the moment whatever instrument is on channel 1 of my synth, it's effects are applied to every other sound; so when i have a sequence running I might get a rotary speaker on my horns instead of reverb if there's an organ on channel 1; this makes things very messy and induces a lot of guesswork - is this an issue normally - with a softsynth setup like i mentioned above?

ash.k
09-25-2003, 04:04 AM
One more quick question - audio this time: I said I have to record, duplicate and individually pan each instrument (so I might have 3 stereo pairs of the bass track - one narrow, one midle and one wide) seperately till I get it to sound like it does on the synth - will a proper sound-card fix this, or is that what the average joe does?

Alex Arnold
09-25-2003, 08:32 AM
Ash! Hey good to hear back from you. Ok, with your MIDI setup, it sounds to me (correct me if im wrong) that you are doing sequences where you have one channel doing an organ patch with a certain internal reverb, and then you have another patch doing a piano patch with a different reverb, and are getting problems with your sequence not receiving the right internal synth effect on each individual channel...is this right? What synth are you using? There are some synths out there that have some great effects, but it sounds like to me you would benefit even more from just getting Logic Platinum and using some of its 50 some different effects, which are great buy the way. With your bass audio tracks, it sounds like you are very picky in getting the right bass sound. Waves (the plug in manufactuer) were here yesterday demonstrating their different plugins and they have a few that would benefit you immensely with doing bass tracks...specifically the Stereo Imager plugin and the Maxxbass and Renaissance Bass plugins. If you are having a problem with certain frequencies then you would simply love their Linear Phase EQ....its simply amazing. The Waves rep boosted like 20 dB of 10k and on a stereo mix of a jazz tune, and there was no distortion at all! Even with a big boost like that. Comes in handy with everything you can think of...real good EQ. Anyways, I would love to talk to you about this kind of stuff. Yes, we do ship internationally...but there are some things we cant, like Apple computers, and other products that have territorial issues. Feel free to give me a call anytime, or just email me...I would love to help you out any way I can. Thanks!