what's the best equipment to digitally record with?

[aprice88]

Hello,

I would like to get involved with Pc-based recording. I am finally ready to upgrade from my cassette-based tascam 8 track. I figured I'm going to have to spend $500-$1200 on the hardware and software (not including the PC). Names like CuBase, Logic, Digi-someting, and Aardvark have been suggested to me, but I have no idea how to choose between anything. I would like to have some decent effects, be able to record 2+ more tracks at once, and also I'd like to try making techno music (as opposed to the more traditional acoustic, bass, vocals + that I have been recording). What's best? What DON'T I want? What's easy to use and learn? (that's big for me! i think this is why ive stuck with my tascam so long). I want something good and im prepared to spend some money on it, but I dont have any idea where to start and Im nervous to just trusting the salesperson at the music store. Please help! Thanks!

Happy Holidays!

- Aaron

[Justin]

This is kind of tough to narrow down without knowing more about what you're looking to do. Call in to 1.800.222.4700 and talk to your Sales Engineer, if you don't have one, tell the receptionist and she'll find someone for you. Our guys will be happy to help you really nail down what will best suit your needs, style, and workflow.

[aprice88]

Do salespeople as well as non-salespeople write on these forums? I will call-in but I would also like the feedback from and end-user I and non-biased party.

Thanks,
Aaron

[TeeCee]

If you're realm of Techno is actually Electro, head on over to Electro Alliance (http://www.electroalliance.net/) and ask something similar or just search the archives. Jackal of Jackal & Hyde, Dynamix II, and IBM recently recomended some all in one piece of software that he and some friends rebuilt some classics in from the ground up rather effectively.

For the recording end, you need to decide if you want to use a closed system such as Digidesign's stuff that mainly works only with its own software and hardware or if you want something more standard where the audio interface and software are from any of a number of manufacturers that all work with Windows standards. Then you need to decide how many tracks you want to record at a time. And you need to decide if you want to work in all MIDI, all audio, or a mix of both.

Lots of decisions. The best setup is obviously mine. Umm, that is there obviously is no such thing as a best setup.

[aprice88]

I'd be interesting in recording 2+ tracks at once. Anyone use any of the programs/hardware I mentioned already and have any feedback?

In regards to Digidesign - I dont think i want to have to stay proprietary - id like to be able to use effects, etc, from other manufacturers if possible. Is there stuff all proprietary?

- Aaron

[michaelhoddy]

No, Digidesign is not closed as far as plug-ins and outside compatibility is concerned, although you must use their hardware if you want to use their software (except for PT Free, which doesn't really count).

As far as Sweetwater is concerned, they carry pretty much all of the major players; software, hardware, and plug-ins, for the PC, so they're not going to be too biased one way or the other as far as an application is concerned. If you're new to this, not sure what you want, and also want the best service and (free) lifetime support in the industry, you'll be very hard-pressed to find any of that anywhere else. Call 'em, they're nice, they won't try to hard-sell you, and they're dedicated to you be happy with your purchase.

And no, I don't work for them...

[aprice88]

Thanks Mike! I'll give them a call.

Still looking for opinions from people who use this stuff on a day to day basis - anybody out there?

- Aaron

[TeeCee]

So far as I know, Pro Tools, Digidesign's stuff, does not use DirectX or VST plugins which are pretty much an open standard. DirectX is fully open, VST is owned by Steinberg. You can buy and find free (not stolen) FX and synths of both of these formats. Pro Tools plug-ins must be written for Pro Tools so in that respect, they are closed. They are certainly proprietary.

2+ tracks of MIDI or audio? Neither of which is dificult. You are more limited by your interface than your software, in this day. I use SONAR XL 2.1 with an M-Audio Delta 66. I record 4 channals of audio regularly. I mix down all my my audio plus some soft synths in SONAR. I work with mostly MIDI for as long as possible, only recording audio when I am rather happy with my MIDI playback.

[Ender]

Well, I'm pretty darn new at this myself. I'm running a PC, and as far as software goes I use ACID PRO 4 for arranging event style. I create techno style loops using the free demo of Fruity Loops 3.5. (the demo lets you export files, but not save projects. Usually that's all I need for a given session) Good to start on for techno depending on your style. Loops can be useful, but you can also created one way lines, and edit beats easily in Fruity Loops. I'm planning to upgrade to Reason 2.0 which seems to be the premier tool for electronic music. I also use Soundforge 6 with various SF and third party plugins. (the BBE Sonic Maximizer plugin is notable) As far as hardware goes I'm still very basic. I'm stuck with an SBLIVE! with 'screach of death' issues, and a pair of computer speakers, which I am planning to replace with a pair of Event PS6s or so. I have a decent pair of headphones (AKG K301) I'm planning to upgrade to the M-Audio Delta 1010 system shortly. For hardware synths I have a Korg MS2000 and my original ride, a Korg N5EX. That's a decent synth from back in the 90s, but the goodies were buried under too many menus. Aside from that and my own ears I'm pretty much in the same boat. I'm planning to use mostly software with an out-board synth/effects rack eventually. I'd also like to go the route of ProTools, but that's only if I can earn some green doing this. :banana:

[nens]

Aaron,

I tried PC Based Recording with Cakewalk Pro Audio & Sonar. I found that latency to be sometimes difficult to work with. This can be less of an issue with a fast PC & an up scale sound card like a Hammerfall or Aardvark.

Currently I use an analog mixer connected to a Fostex DL2424LV 24 track recorder. I transfer the Recorded Tracks from the Fostex to a PC running Nuendo where I add effects and mixdown.

If you have a mixer and/or can afford something like the DL2424, I think you will be much happier.

You can check eBay for some used gear or Sweetwater has great buys as well.

Mike

[jeharris]

aprice88:

One of the unfortunate aspects of the PC world is that you must "Prepare" a PC for digital audio. Before you do anything, check out the following links:

NOTE:Precautions before doing this:http://www.blkviper.com/WinXP/supertweaks.htm This site guides you through it step-by-step.
NOTE: Shutting off WinXP services you don't need:http://www.blkviper.com/WinXP/servicecfg.htm
NOTE: Shutting off Win2K services you don't need:http://www.blkviper.com/WIN2K/servicecfg.htm

Now, I've notice replies to you that speak of latency problems. This is a given, if you do not properly prepare a PC for digital audio. Also remember: DIGITAL IS DIGITAL. What that means is that many machines can fit your criteria. It's a great thing if you have the budget to afford what some of the members have (check my setup out in "introduce yourself").

I was not always in the position to be able to have the kind of setup that I own today, but I am now. However, what I have is overkill for most.

You want to go techno? Then I recomend Reason and/or Acid Pro 4. Now, if you want to add vocals and you get reaons (you can download demos for both from their respective websites), then you'll need a sequencer that's "rewire" capable. From a budget point of view, Sonar is the least expensive and has an excellent rewire interface. You can do your techno in Reason, fire up Sonar, rewire Reson in, add vocal tracks and save everything back to Reason.

Demos:

Reason: www.propellerheads.se
Acid Pro: www.sonicfoundry.com
Sonar XL: www.cakewalk.com


:D

[aprice88]

Thanks for your reply. What's "rewire" mean in your description?

I'm seriously considering the Digi 001 - any thoughts on that?

- Aaron

[jeharris]

Rewire is a Propellerheads technology. Most of the top sequencers have incorporated rewire functionality into their sequencers. It's kind of like Steinbergs ASIO, VSTi, VST System Link technologies. For example: Let's say that you own Cubase, Sonar, Digital Performer, MOTU, etc. Let's also say that you own a copy of Reason 1 or 2.

You've done your reason project, and it sonds great! Now, you want to add vocals. Well, Reason doesn't do vocals by itself. From here, you would launch a sequencer that's rewire capable, like one of the ones that I mentioned above. For this example, let's use Cubase. You open Cubase, start a new project. Then, from the panels menu, you choose "Rewire". The panel opens and your default is "no rewire instruments". when you click on the right down arrow, if you have Reason installed, it will be in the list. When you choose Reason, you will have access to all of Reason's 64 channels. You can literally control Reason from within your rewire host (in this case, Cubase).

You arm your vocal track and press record and do your vocals, all the while, you're monitoring all tracks, including your Reason arrangement. When you're satisfied with the results, you can save the enitre project, vocals included back to Reason.

Reason has won many awards and if you download the demo and take a look, you'll understand why. The demo sounds as good as the real thing and the interface is stunning! You have a virtual rack of software instruments that sound every bit as good as their hardware counterparts.

If I remember correctly, although you cannot save in the demo versions of Cubase SX and Sonar XL, the rewire function is enabled in the demos. If you get a chance, download one of the sequencer demos along with the reason demo and play around with them. You may have a change of heart!

Happy Recording!

:D

[jeharris]

Yes, I do have thoughts on it. It's Pro Tools LE harware. I've played around with Pro Tools LE in the past. Sounds great and is popular with major recording studios and a full blown system costs an arm and a leg and then some.

That's not bad, but sequencers like Cubase, Sonar, MOTU, DP, etc. have caught up with it. They sound just as good and do not cost nearly as much as a full blown "Professional" Pro Tools studio. Another good thing is that since professionals have started to use Cubase, Nuendo, Sonar, etc., in professional studios, it's going to force down the price of Pro Tools systems.

In fact, Digidesign is really reeling over Steinberg's VST System Link technology. This is what will propell Cubase and Nuendo past Pro Tools in the future, because with VST System Link, you can literally have unlimited tracks! The only requirements is that if you want to link more than one system, they must all have the following charactistics:

- A Soundcard that ASIO compatible
- One of the machines with an ASIO Compatible card must be running Cubase or Nuendo
- The soundcards involved must use the same kind of in/out interface. For example: My three DAWs are linked via SP/DIF coaxial. With this linkup, I control everything from my main DAW running Cubase SX. I do my vocal work, rewire work there and I link to DAW2 and DAW3, where my virtual instruments are loaded (VSTis). When I push "Play" Cubase SX, Reason, V-Stack on DAW2 and V-Stack on DAW3 are in bit accurate sync and I'm using the processing power of four CPUs (DAW1 is a dual processor ).

I've successfully laid as many as 100 tracks with no latency problems. That would not be possible with only one DAW. It is possible with VST System Link. By the way, V-Stack is a new Steinberg product which allows you to load up to 16 virtual instruments into its rack. It has VST System Link technology built-in, so it can be used as a "Slave" to the master machine (Cubase or Nuendo). Also, it does not require a "dongle" and you can install it on as many machines as you own. Last, but not least, it's cheap. Only $69.00.

:D

[aprice88]

Wow great posting. Thanks for all the info. :)

[jeharris]

My Pleasure. Think LONG and hard before you tie yourself into a piece of hardware. If I had hardware versions of all of the virtual instruments that I own (Reason, VSTis, DXis, etc.), I'd need an 18 wheeler to move it all. With software, however, I get the same pristine sounds and it's easier to "move around".

There is nothing that the Digidesign hardware can do that I cannot do better with the setup that I have. And besides, there's the 48khz limit. I do not have that limitation. Pretty soon, most people will be mixing and mastering surround sound 5.1/6.1/7.1, etc. You cannot do that well with a 48khz limit.

None of the software that I mentioned in my last post have that limitation and the soundcards that are available today, with the exception of Soundblaster Audigy and a few others, offer 24bit/96khz. Just something to ponder on before you make your final decision.

:D

[aprice88]

But the equipment that youre mentioning costs significantly more, no? Did I miss something - what else would you suggest for around $800?

[jeharris]

My setup is not your normal setup. Most project studios only employ one computer.

:D

[aprice88]

Exactly... Ok thanks for your help!

[jeharris]

And besides, if I estimate my entire cost, it's under $10,000, which is less than a professional Pro Tools systems and their propriority plug-ins. Althoug, it's interesting, considering how much they dispise Steinberg, they've actually built an ASIO driver for Windows XP!

Hum.... Does this mean that Pro Tools will give in and start supporting VSTi virtual instruments? Stay tuned...

:D

[Vim]

hi, you might want to try out the RPC -1 something or other joint venture between Roland and Emagic - max of 24 tracks with midi as well as audio I/O and motorised automatable faders. Search for it in the main SWS page.

l8r

[jeharris]

Vim:

Why would I want to do 24 tracks max when I can currently do over 100 tracks? That's the advantage of VST system link!

:D

[aprice88]

Can somebody explain to me the drivers issue? Is that what VST is - a driver? I keep hearing this terminology and I wish I knew what it meant.

[TeeCee]

VST is "Virtual Studio Technology". Among other things, it is FX and Virtual Instrument (VSTi) standards. Steinberg owns it so not everyone buys into it.

ASIO is the low latency driver standard from Steinberg.

WDM is the windows standard driver model that allows low latency drivers to be developed for Windows 2000 and Windows XP (mainly, but the driver model works for Win98SE and Windows ME to a degree, best for Windows XP).

DirectX a Microsoft set of standards that includes a driver technology and an FX plug-in technology.

DXi is a Virtual Instrument standard developed by Cakewalk that is supposed to be somewhat based on DirectX. This technology is used in SONAR and maybe some other hosts.

[aprice88]

2 things -

1) I thought that latency was a function of your computer hardware and your recording hardware. How does the driver play into effect here?

2) How do these drivers compare to one another?

Thanks!

- Aaron

[TeeCee]

You have to have a well written driver of the proper technology for your computer to approach really low latency performance. The driver may not let you set your latency low enough to glitch if it isn't written to.

The drivers compare as in Steinberg wants ASIO, Acid also now uses ASIO, SONAR uses WDM, general Windows functions will use WDM. A good driver can be made with either technology. Oh yeah, GigaStudio likes GSIF (Giga something something something).

[jeharris]

aprice88:

I don't think it can be said better than TeeCee just did it. Also insofar as GSIF is concerned, it stands for GIGA STUDIO INTERFACE.

Although GigaStudio is Directsound compatible, if you're running it, you'll want a pro card that has an GSIF interface to REALLY take advantage of the power of GigaStudio.

:D

[aprice88]

I know I sound like an idiot here, but remember, I'm a beginner. What does "wants" mean in "Steinberg wants ASIO" etc..? I thought that the recording software came with the appropriate driver for the hardware. I feel totally lost. I think you guys think I have the knowledge of this stuff (on a scale of 1-10) of like an 8. Well, it's really more like a 2. And that might be a stretch.

Can we go over some of the basics?

[TeeCee]

If you can ask the right questions, maybe we can bring you up to speed.

Spacing is for effect, you should digest each statement individually. Whatever does not make sense, ask questions about.

Software does not come with drivers. Hardware comes with drivers. Always. Let's not get into Pro Tools or discuss drivers that come with the OS. They don't count for what we're doing here.

Cubase, Nuendo, Reason, anything Steinberg like uses ASIO for low latency, if available. If not, it will use standard, old Windows MME (Multimedia Extensions) or DirectSound drivers.

That's what I mean by wants. Apply that the same way to SONAR and WDM.

Other software may be programmed to take advantage of either "standard" or just DirectSound.

The plug-in architectures are software dependant. They plug in to host programs. The host program will support DirectX, VST, DXi, and/or VSTi. If it doesn't, it's not a host, just a stand alone program.

[jeharris]

aprice88:

It is your hardware that comes with the appropriate driverss. Since you're new to this, you'll want to get a soundcard that supplies an ASIO driver. The lowest end card that I can think of that comes with them are Soundblaster Live, although I would not recommend that card. The next in line would be the Soundblaster Audigy series of cards which actually sound pretty good, although they try to be all things to all people.

Your best choice would be to get a pro card i.e.: M-Audio Audiophile2496. This is a fine card and just a few days ago, I noticed that audiomidi at www.audiomidi.com is selling the Audiophile2496 for an amazing $129!

This card comes with well written ASIO drivers that bridge the communication with your host sequencer and the soundcard, therefore bypassing Windows Multimedia system. This results in very low latency. An example of latency would be the time between striking a key on your MIDI keyboard and actually hearing the sound. With high latency, the sound will not seem instantanious. It will with very low latency.

:D

[aprice88]

1 more thing: I thought that the digi 001 unit was it's own sound card. I think I'm mistaken. Do I also need a very good sound card? If so, what are good cards for $50-$100? Also, would Sound Blaster Live! Platinum suffice?

[TeeCee]

The digi systems usually are hardware and software but I can't talk about any of them specifically. There are no good cards for $50 to $100. I would think that anyone spending the money on a DigiDesign system would not bother with a consumer card. The Audiophile is the best card I've seen for the money.

[jeharris]

aprice88:

It depends on what you're planning on running. Actually, you would have to pay MORE for a soundblaster Audigy Platium that you would for a M-Audio Audiophile2496, which www.audiomidi.com is selling for $129.00. It's a SUPERIOR card, excellent drivers for ASIO, DirectX/Directsound, GSIF(GigaStudio), etc.

The only reason for a soundblaster Audigy card is the fact that it can load soundfonts, but you can get one of several pro-cards that can also do that. Most of the modern sequencers can load and play soundfonts from within their interface i.e.:, Sonar, Cubase, etc., so there's no need for a Audigy card, unless you're using something like Sebelius for scoring which needs a card like that or similar to get great score sounds.

My ear is super sensitive and it's important to me that everything sounds great. I've never really given soundblaster cards much credit because they, as a whole DO NOT compare with pro-cards.

For Sebelius, it's a fine card, although I would have preferred one of the few pro-cards that allows the loading of soundfonts. The only reason for my picking the soundblaster audigy 2 platium is they ACTUALLY WROTE AN EXCELLENT ASIO driver for the card!

Word of advice: Get the M-Audio Audiophile2496 card. You will not be sorry. Insofar as sequencers are concerned, Pro Tools will be supporting ASIO, as they've written a driver for Windows XP. However, it's a piece of hardware and therefore more limited than a PC or Mac based Digital Audio Workstation. You'd be better off going that route.

:D

[aprice88]

So the digi 001 is only as good as the sound card?

[jeharris]

aprice88:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're using the Digi-001 computer recording system, right?

In your case, a soundcard is unecessary, as you have your inputs/outputs on the hardware and a PCI card to interface with your computer so that you can communicate with Pro Tools LE.

Your soundcard is part of your hardware interface and they do sound quite good, as I have a friend who uses the same type of interface. Right now, however, there's still a limitation to that particular setup. This will change as Digidesign will soon be able to use virtual instruments that have been available to other software sequencers i.e.: cubase, sonar, DP, etc.

Add to this the fact that Digidesign is working with propellerheads to build rewire capabilities into their setup. This will bring that piece of hardware "full circle". You'll wonder how you ever did without VSTi instruments, etc.

:D

[aprice88]

I have not yet installed the digi 001 that i purchased. I want to buy a new computer to dedicate to it. Youre right - the digi 001 is a PCI card connection to the computer. But i was starting to get the impression that the digi 001 works off some off the capabilities of the sound card. Now it seems like that's not true? Which is it?

- Aaron

[jeharris]

aprice88:

Your unit has soundcard capability built into it. It's similar to the M-Audio 1010, which also has a PCI card interface and a breakout box. That's what you have. The only difference is you also have Pro Tools LE as your sequencer interface.

Again, YOU DO NOT need a separate sound card. Just get a powerful computer with fast hard drives (two, one of applications like Pro Tools LE and your plug-ins and one for your audio data). Do not get anything slower than 7200 RPM. If you're not planing on a Mac, run Windows XP Pro. Once you get that set up, and add your hardware, you'll be good to go.

:D

[aprice88]

I haven't yet purchased the computer. Any more min specs you'd recommend on a PC? Also, why XP Pro instead of Home?

[jeharris]

aprice88:

No problem! We're all here to help each other.

:D

[aprice88]

ummmmmmmmmm yeah thanks! I haven't yet purchased the computer. Any more min specs you'd recommend on a PC? Also, why XP Pro instead of Home?

[jeharris]

aprice88:

Windows XP Pro is a better OS. XP home is a comsumer OS. Insofar as systems are concerned. Personally, I prefer Windows 2000 Pro, but most people have a difficult time tweaking it. It's easier for me, since I'm a software developer and have been for twenty one years, which let's you know, I've been around awhile. I'll be 48 this May 30th.

1. Get two fast hard drives (7200 RPM at least).
2. Powerful processor ( I prefer AMD because they consistantly run faster than Intel chips which claim that they are faster).
3. Load it up with memory. 512MB is great. 1GB is mujch BETTER. if you're
planning cubase SX, get as much memory as you can.
4. Upside:Memory is cheap these days.
5. Downside: None, if you know how to tweak your system. I've supplied the
following links below to help.

NOTE:Precautions before doing this:http://www.blkviper.com/WinXP/supertweaks.htm This site guides you through it step-by-step.
NOTE: Shutting off WinXP services you don't need:http://www.blkviper.com/WinXP/servicecfg.htm
NOTE: Shutting off Win2K services you don't need:http://www.blkviper.com/WIN2K/servicecfg.htm


:D

[aprice88]

I bought a computer before I saw the last posting, but I think it should still be fine.

I installed Digi 001 on my new Dell Dimension 2350 (768 ram, intel 2.4 ghz, win xp home). I tried using the cd-rom that I had, but it didn't recognize the driver (i think because it's an old cd) so I went to digidesign and downloaded and installed Pro Tool LE 5.3.1 using my serial #. When I installed it the driver was automatically recognized. Everything seemed okay except for an error that the "PACE" system files didn't install and therefore I wouldn't be able to use some MP3 functionality.

However, when I start Pro Tools it begins to load, gets about half way there (that status bar on the bottom) and then BAM! it blue screens on me and the only way to get it to stop is to physically push the power button. I tried repairing the install. That didn't do it.

Any ideas?

[TeeCee]

What does the blue screen say?

[aprice88]

Im not at the computer now, but something about a hardware conflict. The only way to restart is to actually push the power button.

[TeeCee]

That's typical of clearing an NT/2000/XP blue screen, but the blue screen typically tells you which device or driver caused it. Easy answers, try for newer drivers for the Digi stuff or change the slot the Digi hardware is installed in. What devices do you have in which slots? Many slots share IRQs with other hard ware and slots by default.

[aprice88]

When I get home I'll give you the entire message. It should work though, right? There are no other PCI devices installed right now.

Here's the computer:
- Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor at 2.40GHz with 512K L2 Cache
- Memory 256MB DDR-SDRAM (I added a 512 piece)
- Hard Drive 40GB Ultra ATA/100 7200RPM Hard Drive
- Sound Card Integrated Audio
- Operating System Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
- Network Interface Integrated 10/100 Ethernet
- CD or DVD Drive 40x/10x/40x Max CD-RW Drive with Roxio's Easy CD Creator®
- Video Card AGP Integrated Intel® Extreme 3D Graphics

[TeeCee]

The Integrated Audio is using an IRQ and maybe the same one as your Digi stuff. You should disable it in the BIOS. The Integrated Network Card may be acting as a PCI devie and is also sharing overall resources with the rest of your PC. Although video is AGP, it acts very PCI like, shares copper with PCI typically, and typically shares an IRQ with PCI slots 1 and 5, even if Windows XP and ACPI lie about the IRQ usage and give you IRQs in the upper teens and 20's.

If the Digi stuff is in the first slot, you can try switching slots one by one and see if another allows the Digi to run OK.

Did you install XP or was it on your PC? Did you choose Standard PC mode or let it default to ACPI? Did you check Digi's site for info on this? There's a thread or two about the MOTU PCI324 (or something close to that) that may address some of the issues you may be looking at. The user was having trouble getting the card to work in Windows Xp I believe.

As a side note, if you installed the full CD Creator package, be sure to kill DirectCD.

[aprice88]

First I'll try switching slots. XP came installed. I've been digging around digi's site, but I haven't found anything yet... Direct CD is disabled. The only thing in the taskbar is the volume icon. McAfee loads, but I close it.

Can I just take out the Integrated Audio piece? I have no idea how AGP works - is it affixed to the board permanently?

[TeeCee]

I don't know your system, but many times the integrated audio is part of the motherboard. Yu cannot remove it, you must disable it in the BIOS. Same for the modem and network interface. AGP - Advanced Graphics Port - is for the video. No need to worry about what it is, just realise that it tends to use the same IRQ as PCI slots 1 and 5. IRQ sharing is ypically no big deal, but we aren't doing typical PC functions. We are doing audio.

[aprice88]

Computers suck.

Okay. I'll try messing with it when I get home. There is no modem and the NIC is not a PCI device. Well - it may be a PCI device, but it didn't take up 1 of the 3 available slots. It was located next to the 4 usb ports on the back.

So you're saying I should disable the integrated audio on the bios AND the video stuff? Or, just the audio?

[TeeCee]

Just the audio and maybe the NIC. NOT the video.

[aprice88]

Ok - that's what I thought. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks again for your help!

[aprice88]

So I disabled the NIC and the audio in the BIOS. It worked, as neither the internet nor the audio worked upon startup.

I tried the card in both of the other PCI slots and....it still blue screens. :-(. It's gets to the part in Pro Tools LE loading where it says something like "starting peripherals" and then it crashes . Any other suggestions? I can get you the exact blue screen message if you need it.

Again, I really appreciate all your help with this.

[TeeCee]

The exact blue screen first few lines should tell you what is causing the crash. If it doesn't help me, it'll help Digidesign.

You have 3 PCI slots total? As for audio not working, the Digi interface does not work for you? Did you uninstall any software related to the on board audio? I believe that you need to remove this audio and forget about it. It is not going to help you get this resolved.

[jeharris]

aprice88:

Are you using the ASIO driver for Windows XP? Digidesign just announced one a few weeks ago. That may or may not be your problem. I would think that they would not have designed a driver especially for Windows XP if it was not necessary, so if you're not using that driver (you would have to download it, because it's a BETA driver), then that may be your problem.

As for Pro Tools LE itself, I have not utilized it enough and TeeCee seems to know quite a bit about it. You'll just have to be patient. Whatever is worth having is worth the time it takes to get it right. I particularly hate Dell computers, as I consider them a bit propriatary.

Anyway, good luck and I hope that you get going soon.

:D

[TeeCee]

Originally posted by jeharris
As for Pro Tools LE itself, I have not utilized it enough and TeeCee seems to know quite a bit about it. You'll just have to be patient. Whatever is worth having is worth the time it takes to get it right. I particularly hate Dell computers, as I consider them a bit propriatary.

:D
I have ZERO Digi experience. I'm just throwing typical PC issues out. And for the record, I hate all pre-built style PCs that I've come across.

[aprice88]

I tried installing the ASIO driver. It installed correctly, but Pro Tools LE stills causes a blue screen that says:

Windows was shut down to prevent further damage to the system.
Check for Bios updates, make sure your hard drive is configured correctly, and check with your sys admin. (Seems like default instruction.)
Technical Info:
***STOP: 0x0000008E (0xC0000005, 0xBF8FC3D5, 0xEE3BA3E0, 0x00000000)
*** win32k.sys - Address BF8FC305 base at BF800000, Datestamp, 3db6d462

Beginning dump of physical memory.
Physical memory dump complete.


That most mean something, right?

[jeharris]

Originally posted by TeeCee

I have ZERO Digi experience. I'm just throwing typical PC issues out. And for the record, I hate all pre-built style PCs that I've come across.

TeeCee:

I'm not a fan of pre-built PCs myself, as they are usually built with cheap parts, etc., and are not at all designed for what one wants to do in an audio environment.

I personally built my audio machines and I would suggest that anyone who wants one to be prepared in a manner where it's usuable for audio either build it themselves, or have someone build it who knows what's needed to go smooth sailing.

I only played around with Pro Tools LE when it only ran on Windows 98. I was not that impressed with it, which is the reason that I found alternatives. And, once again, for the record: When you're right, you're right, and when you're wrong, you're wrong, and revisiting, you never stated that you knew anything about Pro Tools per se. However, I would not call the assistance you've been giving "typical", as you do have a knowledge of the inner workings of PC hardware.

And as for you aprice88, I've not seen that particular blue screen error before. I'll have to do some research on that one and get back to you.

[aprice88]

If you (or anyone) can help me solve this, I would greatly appreciate it.

Would you consider building me a machine to dedicate for audio recording? How much would you want for something like that, using (or not using?) my digi 001 piece?

[TeeCee]

Aprice:
That's a core level issue. You may want to try doing some Windows XP patches or service packs. If that doesn't work, I would contact Digidesign with that issue.

[aprice88]

oh man... that doesn't sound good. do you mean patches from digidesign or patches / service packs from windows?

i've already contacted digidesign. i'll see what they say.

[TeeCee]

Windows service packs.

[jeharris]

aprice88:

No, that is not something I would consider and I'll tell you the one reason why:
You're on this site, and as I understand, sweetwater can recommend this kind of thing for you. The only reason that I built my own is because I've worked with PCs since they have existed. And, they existed even before there was a such thing as a Mac.

I would let them handle all the tweaking, installation issues, etc. that are necessary and then, once the system is working the way it should, deliver it to you with a warranty.

That way, if something goes wrong, you can always call them for assistance.
And, just because I've worked with PCs for so long, does not mean that I do not occasionally run into problems.

When I purchased Cubase SX, I had to totally rework the DAW that I installed it to. It was fine for VST Score, but Cubase SX is built more like Nuendo, so I basically had to pull everything out of that DAW and go through the painstaking process of making sure that there were no conflicts. Once I got it right, I made SURE that I did not install anything on that DAW that would interfere with Cubase SX.

They may even be able to work with your Dell. Talk to one of their representatives and see what you can come up with.

Good Luck and this is NOT something that's an impossible dream. It can be done. Just talk to them and see what you can work out. Once you do whatever it is that you decide to do, make sure that you keep learning as much as you can about PC hardware and the OS that you are running, in your case: Windows XP.

This is mandatory so that you'll be able to fix little problems that may or may not crop up. After awhile, you'll become more experience and hence, more confident at these things. It's a painful process to some, but in the long run, you'll be happy that you did it.

One thing that you'll definately want to do, and do often: Make a recovery disk for your Windows XP OS. That way, if something goes wrong, you can run the setup and have it to "fix" the bad problem. It WILL ask you for the disk. As for Windows XP's built in restore, TURN IT OFF!!! If you do not, after awhile, your system will begin to run snail's pace. This is because system restore eats up your hard drive. Disable it.

As a rule of thumb: Always update your restore disk BEFORE you attempt a new installation of anything and make sure you check the box to back up the registry to the floppy disk.



:D

[smileywiley]

I think you should look into the Digi 002. It will cost a little more but since everything is by the same company, it integrates seamlessly. Pro tools is easy to work with and being able to mix everything with the digi 002 makes it great. It's hard to mouse everything especially if you're doing more than one track at a time. Also, Roland's new studio package looks nice and it's only like 1200 bucks. It comes with emagic software but is compatible with any of the others.

[xstatic]

The digi 002 has many limitations that other surfaces do not. They are control surfaces marketed specifically for just about every piece of software out there now, and they will all come in a lot cheaper than the DIGI 002 and will leave you enough money left over to buy a couple of soundcards that will offer more performance than the Digi 002.

[aprice88]

Are there any controls surfaces around $500 that are good? I heard the baba HUI works wel l with the digi 001 and it's around that price .

Also, got my unit finally working - apparently pro tools conflicts with quicktime in XP home.

[xstatic]

IF PT allows hui emulation, it should work fine. If not, there are other ways of mapping controllers. Also, I have have a friend who has a digi002 who was not really impressed with it, and will be selling it if you are interested.

[homarne]

Hi.

I'm a satisfied cubase + reason user. I run reason on my laptop as a freeform composition tool, and them move songs to my music PC when I ready to record audio or add effects only availabe in Cubase.

A clean PC used only for audio is the safwest bet.

See http://www.tascam.com/support/faq/pc_optimize/index.php

for another source of PC hygene info

Lucks,

[jeharris]

Good setup! Fine advice about keeping your PCs up and in good running order.

It's amazing that people to not realize how important this is to audio on the PC. Since Microsoft has just come up with a media addition of Windows XP, maybe it'll come closer to the Mac OS insofar as audio optimization is concerned. Until then, articles such as the one you posted from Tascam will come in handy to many who may visit this thread.

:D

[TeeCee]

Curious as to what the "Media Edition" is. I thought it was going to be something like MultiMedia - video and audio playback, filing, archiving, etc.

[jeharris]

TeeCee:

My brother Don, is a Microsoft Executive. He tells me that this version of the OS is geared specificly towrards audio, any kind of audio.
From what he says, people with project studios will be able to set up just as easily as those with a Mac OS.

It makes me wonder, though. Whenever something tries to be ALL THINGS to all people, they usually end up not being the best that they can be. Perfect example: Soundblaster Audigy series cards. Lightyears better than they use to be, but still carrying baggage that a professional audio card would not adhere to.

:D

[TeeCee]

Like I always say, universal fit universally fits like crap.

[jeharris]

I could not agree with you more!

:D