Getting A Good Bass Recording With DAW - So Frustrating!! - Be kind & Humor Me

[Firstgarden]

Sorry if this seems redundant. I have searched a lot on the net and am finding few answers to my problem. :bounce: Maybe because there are so many variables to this issue. (?) Back in the good old days of tape, good bass sound was never much of a problem. I presently use Digi001 (sorry, I'm struck with that til budget allows something more serious.. yes, I know "the converters suck", etc, etc). My first bass guitar recording into this was a sonic disaster - I'm sure you all know that horrid, hollow "plunky" milk can kind of sound that was supposed to be a bass. Welcome to digital recording, right? I was foolish enough to go straight into the DAW when I was new at digital recording.

Well, I needed a new bass. So, one jolly day I got halfway drunk, opened up my shirt & messed up my hair, deliberately looking like a slob cuz I was about to drop a G or so on a decent bass, and didn't want the dudes at Guitar Center jumpin' on me for their G.P.'s. (That's inside talk for Gross Profit dollars - which was how their commission was based before all the cream rose to the top.. before the somewhat knowledgeable folks were replaced by clerks who nowadays don't give a rat's rectum whether you buy or not. And these were PRE-recession times!) Well, sure enough, the lion's avoided me and I finally got my lamb.. some new guy who was polite enough to approach me with my sorry looking appearance and offer me help. (I'd love to buy a new care like this one day). And for that, I laid right down for a USA Fender Jazz with dynamic pickups. I'm no buy & return, free-rent slimebag either.. I keep what I buy.

So I recorded with that and still wasn't satisfied, tho the sorry milkcan plunk sound was somewhat alleviated. (Yes, the battery was fresh). So, I later went to Guitar Center (I know... I'm a glutton for punishment), after tons of preamp research, and got an Art MPA GOLD tube pre for under $300. It seemed the best for my budget, which by now was a-hurtin', and ya know, "An imperfect decision on time is better than the perfect one too late."

When I recorded bass thru that, it sounded better, but nothing to be really proud of. It still wimpified in the punch & strength department. And that's regardless to volume or EQ settings.

BTW, I had gone to GC no less than THREE times (between TWO diff GC stores).. and left empty-handed after I was planning to buy, cuz the bums just couldn't pay any mind. And it was not busy, and I looked good. Maybe I shoulda played the slob again. But by now, I think the better crowd receded into Deep Space Nine and the Next Generation clerks had fully come on the scene. GC musta thought that they'd work for cheap just because "it's such a cool business to work in." And boy does it show!!!! I went in there just the other day planning to load up my GC credit card for a D.I. box or somethin' and no one there knew anything about it. Again. I left -- you guessed it ... empty-handed.

Okay, no more joking. But I do hope I made you laugh.. at least a little?
Please guys, pity me and my ignorance.

I do imagine that going through an amp would help, using pre-out into DAW.

Someone suggested a tube D.I.

Others have been impressed with bass pods, or presets within Roland DAW units, etc. For some things, that may be fine. But for me, it seems the genuine original bass sound is a good starting point.

And plugs for my digi rig might prove to be further artifice, or at least not getting me at that "best" starting point I just mentioned. Whether that's a valid point or not, I'll leave for you experts to decide.

But most of all, my G4 is slow having dual 450s, and I've already been majorly bummed with nightmare latency, :eek: :eek: :eek: by feeding several SR16 tracks in simultaneously, (for the sake of sep track isolation for each part of the drum set in a mix studio later) and was forced to use sequencing for them, to stop the latency.

Okay, no further rambling. Any suggestions on how to get my bass to sound warm, present & solid?

Add a D.I. to my signal chain, along with my tube pre?

Get a passive D.I?..since I have dynamic pickups? Not that the dynamic pickups seem to make a world of difference. I adjusted the EQ on the bass to optimum sound settings and it's ok, but not life changing. Those old pre CBS Jazz basses I used still seemed to blow it away. Or was it the tape? Even my old Hofner sounded better.

Thanks in advance for any advice offered!

[michaelhoddy]

Mic the cabinet. Any cabinet, it really doesn't matter. If you're looking for ballsy, 3 dimensional, and round, mic the cabinet.

I've used anything from great bass cabs to powered studio monitors being reamped from a DI track for this, and mics ranging from 57's through U47's. It almost always helps.

I usually take a DI signal off of somewhere, and then mic the speaker. I usually end up with a mix of about 75 percent cabinet and 25 percent DI.

I have gotten great DI-only tracks, but you really need a pretty amazing bass player with a great instrument that's set up right to make this do everything it needs to.

Of course, great bass gear is helpful. A great bass player is necessary. Great recording gear is optional. I can't see any reason why a Digi 001 would get in the way of that. I've done this with a Digi 001 back in the day with good results.

One other thing I was thinking: If you're trying to run a passive bass like a Fender P or J bass straight in, it's really not going to help the sound at all. The level and impedance mismatches between a passive guitar output and a balanced or unbalanced line level input are pretty massive.

Skip right over the amp modeler and POD stuff for bass. I've tried this, and it really didn't help much. Getting the fundamentals right is more important.

[Firstgarden]

Thanks Michael for the awesome response! I don't presently have a bass amp, but I will again eventually. That's why I was going in direct. I have played and recorded professionally much of my life, so I think I can do adequate recording. Perhaps you were referring to technique.. not sure how good or bad playing relates to the sound itself. I do see how inconsistent playing could be bad for recording, such as not being consistent in volume or string plucking technique.

So, for the moment I'll continue to experiment direct into the unit. Glad to hear that the digi001, dated as it is, won't stand in the way here.

You mentioned passive basses. My Fender Jazz has dynamic pickups, so I don't know if this qualifies for passive. Either way, wouldn't the preamp help to overcome the level/impedance mismatches? And/or a DI box?

Thanks again for the response!

[michaelhoddy]

I'm sure your playing is fine. I was just mentioning that this does have a rather profound effect on the tracks. Two different players can record the same song with the same bass and the same settings, and the tonality of the track will often sound very different. I'm not enough of an expert on bass playing (I'm a "bass owner" more than a "bass player"- keys is my main instrument) to know why, but it's definitely there.

Does your Fender take a battery for an internal preamp circuit? I know most Fenders don't, but I also don't know all of the Fender line.

If not, some sort of bass preamp will definitely help with the signal path. I've recorded other guys with stuff like the Eden Navigator and Demeter boxes, and it certainly makes a big difference, although I'm sure there are less expensive options that are plenty good as well.

[Firstgarden]

Yes, as a bass with dynamic pickups, it does use a 9 volt battery, which I'm careful to keep fresh. As mentioned, I do have an ART tube preamp (MPA GOLD) which for the reviews really did shine in many circles considering it bottomed out in price for just under $300. I'm planning to get better tubes for it, as the stock ones are so-so at best. That's a $30 well invested.

Yes, I agree, playing style can make a big difference, especially in the assertiveness and resonance as notes are sustained & released. (I'm sure other subtle nuances apply).

At this point, I'm thinking a passive DI might be in order, used in conjunction with the Art preamp. Again, all suggestions welcome.

Thanks so much for your feedback!

p.s. will trade entertainment for info (kidding)

[TJames]

well, here's my take. Bass is tuff I would agree, playing styles and execution of your style is also evident after recording. You may have to spend a few minutes( hours) learning how to play while recording which is different than playing on the gig. Me, I am very assertive when I play on the gig , my execution is too strong and I know it. When recording though, I needed to back up and understand whats causing the grief on the track. Less is more was the answer.

My Bass is a passive 1995 Fender 62/ RI JBASS, I ended up with this Bass ( bought it new) after playing several different Basses for a couple for years that didn't really make it for me. On the gigs it is this Bass and a Hartke 4x10 half stack, it talks to me.

Now, recording, I record direct thru a cheap ART tube preamp which has some different EQ positions , a tad of compression, no reverb etc and minimal EQ and...strings that are fresh or at least alive. This has been the biggest detriment, dead or half dead strings. A soft touch for execution has made a big difference as well.

Recording Bass may require that you experiment with several different settings and write them down. On my recorders I have written and saved input patches for E Guitars, A Guitars and Bass. It didn't happen right away, it took some time and understanding of what was causing the bad issues. At the end of the day it could easily be just a crappy sounding Bass for recording but you can overcome that. I still find recording Bass tracks require a great deal attention, my Bass has great sounds across the neck under the 5th fret but different sounds up the neck above the 5th fret. Finding the sweet spots for tone is also important. Also, I have found that playing half as many notes and using more whole tones and half tones as really helped the tracks.

Didn't mean to ramble , just wanted to share what I have experienced.

tj