How would I use the Apogee Rosetta in my system?

[rodneysax]

I'm considering buying an Apogee Rosetta 800 but I am not sure how I would incorporate it into my system. I have a Tascam DM4800 mixer and a Mac Pro Quad core, running DP5 for my DAW. I am set up to record 24 tracks of audio through my mixer, although I never record that many tracks at one time, and am using the fire wire card for the mixer to do this. Would I need 3 Rosettas to be able to mix all 24 tracks of audio? How would I incorporate and wire the Rosetta into my system? Or should I be looking at another Apogee product?

[DAS]

There's more than one way to skin this cat, and what you ultimately do would likely depend on what you're trying to accomplish with it, though I think the simplest way would be to use the Rosetta as an I/O for your mixer. It's only 8 channels of I/O, so for recording (for instance) you could only run 8 things at a time into the mixer through the Rosetta. Similarly you would only be able to run 8 things out of your mixer at one time through it. Other ins and outs would still have to use the Tascam's I/O. It doesn't change the mixers ability to mix tracks at all.

Hope that makes sense.

[Psykostx]

Answered my own question when I reread.

[Psykostx]

I'm considering buying an Apogee Rosetta 800 but I am not sure how I would incorporate it into my system. I have a Tascam DM4800 mixer and a Mac Pro Quad core, running DP5 for my DAW. I am set up to record 24 tracks of audio through my mixer, although I never record that many tracks at one time, and am using the fire wire card for the mixer to do this. Would I need 3 Rosettas to be able to mix all 24 tracks of audio? How would I incorporate and wire the Rosetta into my system? Or should I be looking at another Apogee product?


An ADC simply turns analog into digital. Your Tascam is already an ADC. You don't need the Rosetta... but you will benefit from a nice TIMEPIECE (DIGITAL MICRO CLOCK) and a REALLY good Channel-Strip for those special instruments.

I reccommend the BigBen from apogee and a nice Millenia pre or if you want that grimey rock n roll sound grab an API! If you like warm beautiful stuff, get a Universal Audio... Also I reccommend an FX add on card for the Tascam....ABSOLUTELY AMAZING!

[michaelhoddy]

I'm confused by the reply above, but DAS's reply is the basic gist of how you'd do it, and yes, your Tascam will certainly benefit from having the Apogee on the front end. I have done a similar setup in the past with a DM24, and the Apogee AD and DA definitely makes a big difference.

I would use one of these in the Tascam in one of the expansion I/O slots...

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/IFAEDM/

...And connect the Rosetta via db25 cables. Don't use ADAT lightpipe if you have the choice- AES is far more stable, sounds better, is high-res capable with no channel reduction, and will not ruin your recordings with clicks and pops (ADAT has done that to me countless times when I've been forced into using it.)

Clock the Tascam to the Rosetta, with the Rosetta as the clock master. You can do this via a separate BNC wordclock connection, or just via the AES stream, which should be fine.

You will still need mic preamps on the front of the Rosetta.

The only problem is that your routing scheme will be a little complex, but it should work.


There's more than one way to skin this cat, and what you ultimately do would likely depend on what you're trying to accomplish with it, though I think the simplest way would be to use the Rosetta as an I/O for your mixer. It's only 8 channels of I/O, so for recording (for instance) you could only run 8 things at a time into the mixer through the Rosetta. Similarly you would only be able to run 8 things out of your mixer at one time through it. Other ins and outs would still have to use the Tascam's I/O. It doesn't change the mixers ability to mix tracks at all.

Hope that makes sense.

[Psykostx]

I am confused now...why would you add more AD to a digital mixer? DM = Digital Mixer! Why not just improve the clock and add some better pres? Also doesn't the Tascam accept FX cards from UA and Focusrite? It would seem you would get more bang for the buck this way and sweetwater would get rid of some high end pres as well...


The only problem is that your routing scheme will be a little complex, but it should work.

That was my point. It seems unneccesary to me to add MORE A/D. I think you missed this part of his question...


I am set up to record 24 tracks of audio through my mixer, although I never record that many tracks at one time, and am using the fire wire card for the mixer to do this.

You would definitely benefit from having a superb sync source instead of using the internal clock...and well any preamp is better than a Tascam preamp. The converters on the Tascam are absolutly FINE... they pretty much invented affordable ADC so I would trust them, I think its the clock in the Tascam that suffers from the "cheapies."

[michaelhoddy]

The Rosetta AD and DA is far superior sonically to that of the Tascam, at least to my ears. That's why. Also, the clock circuit in the Rosetta, while maybe not a Big Ben, is quite good, and will work as a master clock source much better than that of the Tascam.

The downside is that you would then need external mic preamps on the front of the Rosetta, and the routing would be pretty clunky.

I have a somewhat similar setup, where I have about 8 channels of great mic preamps and AD converters running with a Yamaha digital mixer. I use the external AD and mic pres for the important stuff, and the Yamaha pres and AD for everything else (usually stuff like toms and hi-hat, where it doesn't really matter much). I use the Yamaha for cue mixing, and I have a good 8 channel DA on the back end for monitoring and for stems.

Yamaha's routing options make this less fussy to do than Tascam's. And it works quite well.

[Psykostx]

I have a somewhat similar setup, where I have about 8 channels of great mic preamps and AD converters running with a Yamaha digital mixer.



Ok so you are just using the mixer as an ITB controller pretty much? I don't mean to sound combative as I often do (I have no life right now so I can come off as frustrated lol), but it seems a waste to buy a set of converters if have a mixer if you only use 8 tracks out of 24 at a time, like the original poster. You really use all your tracks, but he doesn't seem to need more channels, he just wants a sound upgrade. I think that the BigBen or Isochrone would really help, I never liked the sound of digital mixers, you can just hear all the jitter, I don't think its the converters but the clock that they cheap out on...

Rodney, why not sell the mixer and get a Rosetta, and a nice set of pres (or three or four nice sets of pres :D ), and a small hardware controller? Do you really need all those faders and outboard EQs?

[michaelhoddy]

The mixer makes cueing and routing way easier. I do mix in the box, so basically the mixer is functioning on the front end for cue mixing.

You can also set up the mixer and external converter so that your interface (a Lynx AES16 in my case) sees the converter directly via the converter's AES outs, and the converter's lightpipe outs feed the mixer. In that way, the mixer is kept completely out of the signal chain going to the computer. It's a little difficult to explain briefly here, but it can be done.

Almost all the time during tracking, you don't need more than a few channels of good stuff except for doing drums, unless you're in the habit of tracking entire bands at the same time and using them as final tracks, which at least I'm not. Drums will chew up 12 channels or so, but several of them (toms and maybe hi hat) see very limited use in the song and no one is going to care about which preamp and converter they were recorded with. The rest of the time, you're using 1, 2, maybe 5 channels tops. So, at least for me, the smaller number of "great" channels makes sense, compared to having a whole bunch of money sunk in stuff I'll never use. I used to have 16 channels of "great" mic preamps, and I've since cut this down to 8 because I don't want to have money sunk in stuff I won't use or which doesn't matter.

The whole "external clocking of a bunch of average AD" approach doesn't make a lot of sense to me because sonically, a good converter will beat an average converter with a good clock most of the time. From personal experience, this is definitely true of the Tascam. I've used it by itself, with an external converter, with an external clock, and with an external converter and an external clock, and the step that made a huge, noticeable difference was the addition of the external converter (in that case an Apogee AD-16X).

[Psykostx]

From an electrical engineering perspective, a clock should make digital gear perform exactly to spec, and a good voltage regulator should make the clock perform to spec. I did overlook the cue/monitor control aspect of having a mixer, but I think for the price of that board, unless you need a portable solution without a DAW, there are much better combos you can have than just adding more unneccesary channels and sync via external ADC.

I think rodney would be better off with a voltage regulator, a small control surface (somthing like the Alphalink), top notch AD/DA, and a few good pres (which can be added to later)...with only one digital source, you could even skip the clock. Keep the mixer for people with dedicated harddisk style setups and no DAW. After selling the mixer and buying all that, he may even have a few bucks left over...though I will admit it is hard to sell used gear in this economy, that mixer is an exceptional value and is probably in high demand!

EDIT: I am sorry micheal, but I am going to have to stick to my guns, I think you are overlooking rodney's very limited and simple needs. He doesn't need the portability, he needs the fidelity on a maximum of 8 tracks, and though a digital mixer is great, it is not the best solution for his project recording needs. Plus, he can clearly afford 3 rosettas, so I think that PreAmps are a better way to spend thousands and thousands of dollars...also rodney put money into your monitoring, multiple pairs of headphones and various sized monitors go a lot farther than any amount of outboard gear without monitoring options.

[michaelhoddy]

I'm considering buying an Apogee Rosetta 800 but I am not sure how I would incorporate it into my system. I have a Tascam DM4800 mixer and a Mac Pro Quad core,

Uhh, Psychotix, read the original post again. He already has a digital mixer, and I'm sure it's what's already doing all that other stuff you mention (monitor routing, cue mixing, etc). Additionally, he makes no mention of portability or of having any desire to replace his DM-4800, rather just trying to get some better front and back end on it. Which is exactly what the solution I describe (and use, incidentally) does. And I know it does it (and what the strengths and weaknesses of it are) from having spent a lot of time with two similar setups.

[Psykostx]

micheal you need to read my post again. And it's "psycho-sticks." I know he has the mixer already, thats why I suggest he sell it...because he doesn't need all those tracks... I think its too early in the morning for you...lol