Audio Engine showdown! (yeehaw!)

[shaneperc]

Greetings Everybody,

First of all, I'm a newbie to this forum. I often flip through the pages here at Sweetwater, just seeing what new gear is out there, but this is the first time I noticed they had a forum. For this I am glad.
But anyway, onto the question!
I am currently using Cubase/VST for Windows*, and while the functionality is just what I am looking for, the audio engine needs some serious help (especially if you have a piece with more than 4 or 5 audio tracks). After a long period of denial, I'm thinking about handing in my Steinberg membership card and moving to another camp.
Not taking into account functionality, I'm trying to decide who has the best (to you) audio engine on the PC platform? From what little info I've found, it seems that Logic Audio and ProTools(le) are the top contenders. (Unexpectedly, I've heard from several people who will swear by Samplitude, but I think Sek'd killed that line of sequencers, so it's not a consideration anyway.)
I know this is a highly subjective point, but I would LOVE to hear what everyone has to say.

Thanks!,
Shane

*And you can stop the snickering, Mac guys! :) I know Sweetwater is heavy-duty Mac country, but maybe I LIKE system crashes, hastily written apis, and new and improved (if by improved, you mean unstable) operating systems coming out every other Thursday!!! :)

[DAS]

I'm not a PC guy so I can't tell you first hand, but I've been hearing really great stuff (from savvy users) about Cakewalk's new SONAR software. It's a whole new audio engine for them and is based on the 'latest technology' etc.

[shaneperc]

Thanks, Das. I haven't heard anything from Sonar users about that part of the application. I'll have to check it out.

[Steveejo]

I've been using Sonar for about six months, and it's a great program. They're really starting to get the minor bugs out, and the support for Dxi soft synths, and DirectX plug-ins grows everyday.

In addition, you can use ACID loops in addition to the normal audio and midi engines....check it out.

I'm running it on Windows 98SE with MME driver (not the optimum system), and it's working great.

I think they offer a demo version from the website.

[blacko3788]

Please don't go Cakewalk anything, unless you want to leave crumbs all the way to your trash can....lol....I'm joking! I never liked calkwalk, at this point I don't even think I'd check it out again...cheese! I started out using Paris and found it to be kinda in the stone ages...good but not good enogh. Over a year ago I purchased Logic Audio made by EMAGIC. Contact Sweetwater or Check it out at www.emagic.de With this program you can record not just audio but integrate midi: and that's not all kiddies but you can score your midi music to. Now you can print out your music and give it a real professional look especially if you have studio musicians come over to cut.

[shaneperc]

Blacko,
I agree that Logic probably outweighs Cakewalk/Sonar in most aspects, even though I think you were being a little hard on Cakewalk in your post:). (I mean, there IS a price gap between the two, so there's no reason Logic SHOULDN'T outperform Sonar).
Sonar has some winning points, though. I've heard nothing but rave reviews about incredibly low latency, with and without the WDM drivers. (However, the people that REALLY benefit from it, those using softsynths, are having to deal with first generation bugs that seem to be everywhere in their DXi s).
This thread being about audio engines, I must say that I still haven't heard Sonar in action. I missed out when Cakewalk came to town with their demo crew. I don't know anyone that uses it, either. I'd like to hear it though.

[Eulogy]

Both myself and a friend of mine have been using SONAR for a few months now, and I must say that their engine is on par or better than anything else I've used up to this point (DP3, ProTools, and Logic on Macintosh and Vegas Video, Pro Audio 8, and Pro Audio 9 on PC)

If I had to, I'd make a comparison in saying that Sonar feels very much like a combination of Pro Audio 9 and ProTools as far as the GUI and many of the editing features are concerned.

As far as the fidelity of the audio engine, a good comparison would be between Sonar and DP3. They are both solid, low-latency, and clean engines.

[ggidluck]

Hi Shane,
Take another look at Samplitude. Seriously. It has excellent sound and can handle the tracks. I have used it for 3 years. SEKD/Magix reworked their audio mix engine in 5.9 . Version 6 demo (similar to Sequoia) is out and it works for 90 days. http://www.magix.de

Support for midi is weak in Samplitude, but you can run another app as a sequencer.

SAMP is a good all-round recording/mastering/cd mastering product.

Gordon

[Spastik]

I use Cubase VST/32 and Wavelab right now and love em!

The engine is pretty much the exact same thing as Logic as far as audio is concerned and it came bundled with Wavelab (awesome mastering software). As far as Sonar, a good friend uses it and loves it, but it does lack the ability to use VST plugins and if you get a lot of em you can always get a DSP card to crunch em. As far as Pro Tools goes, well its a dying horse and I doubt it will be here in 10 years at the rate they are goin. Unless they start going native and bumping up to 96khz and above and apple starts building processors that are fast and scalable. I have also had the unpleaseant experiance of using samplitude, yikes. Other people may swear by it, but I swear at it, a lot. One other good thing about Cubase is that it is widely supported by conrtol surfaces. Its works great with the SAC2k, has its own Huston, and can use just about everything else.

:D

[JApthorp]

I've been using SONAR for about six months and continue to be impressed. Being around network radio and studios for over 20 years, I've tried most high end systems and it's really hard to justify paying more for the more costly software. I wasn't at all crazy about Pro Audio 9 but SONAR took care of what was missing.

[Eric]

Shane,

One thing you might want to check out before changing the software you are comfortable using is our PC optimization guide to see if that helps you get more out of your audio program.
http://www.sweetwater.com/insync/techtip.tpl?find=12/18/2001

That link is to part one. There are 3 parts to it. The information comes from our very own Sweetwater Tech Support Department.

Give it a try and let us know how it works for you.


Sincerely,

Eric "twitch" Rodrigue
Sweetwater Inc.
1-800-222-4700 ext. 1278
fax: 219-432-1758
email: eric_rodrigue@sweetwater.com

[vmcasanova]

Hey dude,

I'm not really sure what your doing with Cubase. I mean you definately should not be having problems with "4 or 5" audio tracks. I run like 60+ 16-bit tracks and like 32+ 24-bit tracks at once with mad effects. Granted I'm on a powerful G4, but I have buddies who use PC's and get similar performances. My advice- get deep into Cubase, Steinberg is at the cutting edge, they don't mess up! Good luck!!!

[shawn guess]

im not so sure you should first suspect the software for lack in performance, your computer is probably the cause

[SilverBack]

Hey vmcasanova!

My name's Jay - I'm a home recording hobbyist. I saw your forum entry about using 50+ 16-bit audio tracks simultaneously! You said your PC friends had such abilities as well. Dude! I'm lucky to get 10 tracks working without dropout on my PC - a high clock speed P3 with 256MB RAM. I'd like to hear from other recording fans and compare notes!

Jay

[shaneperc]

I'm not, but that's just because I can't afford a good Mac! Maybe MS has turned from their evil ways with XP. (I hope so!)

[shaneperc]

Ohhh. Being a PC person, I missed the Mac element of the joke. :) You know what I'd REALLY like to see happen? I'd love for companies to write apps for BeOS (or maybe even unix). Something more stable than Mac or Windows, using PC components. That would be perfect!

[shaneperc]

BTW, do you know what happened to BeOS? I know they're still there, but I heard that MS (Once again, EVIL!) somehow got in the way of their development. I know that the new Radar24s are using BeOS as their OS, but other than that, I haven't heard anything.

[Big Daddy Dean]

I have been using Sonar, Cubase VST, and Logic Platinum for a while. Here are my findings.

Audio quality: Logic and Sonar. These programs record exactly what comes from the mic! Incredible. To get Cubase VST 32 to get this type of sound you must activate true tape to about 18db and then Cubase will give you an "equivalent" sound.

Synchronization between MIDI and audio:

My winners are Cubase VST 32 and Sonar. Although one will experience some latency, it is consistent and recording with these is a snap.

Logic on the other hand sometimes gets syncrhonization problems with audio and MIDI and you have to reconfigure the parameter in the audio drivers options. This usually happens when you are using Audio, the EXS24 sampler and MIDI


Hope this is helpful

Big Daddy

[Eric]

Ohhhh man I bet there are some executives kicking themselves on that deal..........heh heh

[shaneperc]

BeOS sold everything to Palm, but it was because of Microsoft's "ambitious" business practices. Actually, Be sued Microsoft over it, but I don't know how that turned out.
About BeOS itself, I've never messed around with it, but I hear its stability is on par with Unix (Which makes it 4 times more stable than MacOS and 40 times more stable than Windows). The file structure and I/O functions were also supposed to be more friendly with streaming data. The big drawback was the lack of any kind of serious recording applications, even though BeOS was made with graphics and audio in mind. I don't remember seeing any of the bigger audio software companies writing anything for BeOS. I think I read that some of them had a BeOS version in the works, but that's the last you'd hear about it.
It's too bad. Now we're missing out on what could have been a great thing because Bill Gates needed another diamond studded helm-cozy for his 14th yacht.