Compression on vocals needed?

[ChooChoo]

I haven't been using any compression on my vocals, and they sound good when played through my monitors, my car CD player, a Sony CD boombox and other systems with large speakers. But, when played on a CD boombox I use at the school where I work, it sounds like the player is going to vibrate apart when I turn up the volume. I've tried other CD's that are professionally mastered, and other than sounding tinny on the inexpensive CD player at school, I can still turn the volume up without all the vibration. Do I need to use compression on the vocals, or something else? I'm using ProTools LE with an MBox 2 and a Rode NT1-A condenser mic. Thanks, Cheryl

[Smithcok]

Are you playing a full program through these systems, or just vocals?

It could be any number of things, spectral problems**, lack of compression (and therefore perhaps volume spikes), etc... pretty impossible to diagnose unless we can hear the source material and then compare it to what's happening in the boom box.

**likely this

[RawknRoll]

I don't believe it's a compression issue...... all though it could be.

Sounds to me more like your low mids or lows are pushed to high.

Smithcok is right, we need more info.

I would guess though if other recordings cranked sound tinny but not vibration then you probably have to much low lows in the recording.

Good luck!

[DAS]

As much as I dislike the constant overuse of compression on modern recordings I can't imagine doing a pop or rock record without SOME compression on the vocals. Now that we don't have tape compression/saturation anymore it's pretty much the only way to get most vocalists to sit in the mix correctly at all times.

[cmchamp]

does everything else sound OK on that CD player at school, or does it sound bad with most anything?
It has been my experience with most school purchased playback equipment (I'm a music teacher) for general classroom use is that they are 1) cheap, 2) cheap, and 3) intended for speech intelligibility of spoke word books, etc.
It could just be that someone has literally beat the living daylights out of it and it needs to be replaced.

[ChooChoo]

Yes, the CD player is only a $20.00 one, just purchased, so I'm stuck with it. Other CDs sound tinny, but the player doesn't sound like it's going to vibrate apart when I turn up the volume to an acceptable level -- just mine do. What is meant by the low lows or mid lows being pushed up? Are you talking about frequencies? I've EQed the vocals, but maybe not good enough. The instruments are all virtual, so I have no problem with them. Sometimes, when I've recorded my Baldwin 7-foot grand piano, I've gotten some noise from vibrations in the room (it isn't set up with baffles and all), but I've fixed that with playing a little softer and adjusting the recording level. I have a couple of albums with links to them at CDBaby on my website gleasonmusicforchildren.com. I hope that is ok to post that info here, so you all could listen and maybe be able to tell what I'm doing wrong. The samples do tend to make my little computer speakers vibrate when I listen to them. I did my own mastering (I'm on a shoestring budget -- like only have $25.00 left at the end of the month for savings, so professional mastering will have to wait.) But if something is really wrong with the sound, I want to fix it. Thanks, Cheryl

[RawknRoll]

Hey Choo Choo,

I didn't get a chance to listen yet but let me explain my theory further since you are entertaining it.


If you have anything EQ boosted anywhere from 40k to about 400k I would try bringing that down.

Lack of Compression doesn't cause things to vibrate as long as you aren't clipping if you have vocals past the point of clipping or if your master stage is clipping that could be another part of it.

Here is it in step order:

1. Make sure nothing is clipping
2. Make sure you don't have your low frequencies from 40 to 400 k boosted to high.. try lowering them even. The best way to EQ isn't too boost but to subtract so your eq doesn't cause unnatural clipping... So in essence if you want more bass subtract the high and or vice versa.

Good Luck!

[Smithcok]

Yes, the CD player is only a $20.00 one, just purchased, so I'm stuck with it. Other CDs sound tinny, but the player doesn't sound like it's going to vibrate apart when I turn up the volume to an acceptable level -- just mine do. What is meant by the low lows or mid lows being pushed up? Are you talking about frequencies? I've EQed the vocals, but maybe not good enough. The instruments are all virtual, so I have no problem with them. Sometimes, when I've recorded my Baldwin 7-foot grand piano, I've gotten some noise from vibrations in the room (it isn't set up with baffles and all), but I've fixed that with playing a little softer and adjusting the recording level. I have a couple of albums with links to them at CDBaby on my website gleasonmusicforchildren.com. I hope that is ok to post that info here, so you all could listen and maybe be able to tell what I'm doing wrong. The samples do tend to make my little computer speakers vibrate when I listen to them. I did my own mastering (I'm on a shoestring budget -- like only have $25.00 left at the end of the month for savings, so professional mastering will have to wait.) But if something is really wrong with the sound, I want to fix it. Thanks, Cheryl

A quick comment -
The fact that you are using virtual instruments rather than "live" ones in no way sets a precedence for the need to not EQ things. (Sorry, awkward sentence) While EQ is often used to make instruments sound "better" by themselves, another (more?) important function of EQ is to make multiple tracks fit together in the mix (from a spectral standpoint).

But, yeah, definitely sounds like a "too much low frequency energy".

What are you mixing on (speakers) and what is your room like?

[ChooChoo]

Thanks so very much for the info! I'm checking for any boosts on the vocals between 40K-400K today and looking for any clipping that might have slipped through. I'm using Sony CD Architect for burning the CD and shouldn't have had any clipping, but I'll double check. I'm using Boehringer Truth B2030A near-field studio monitors and have experimented with distance from the mic and putting the mic in different parts of the room to eliminate noise reflections off other stuff in the room. I usually have to EQ my vocals at about 250Hz, cutting about -2.5 to eliminate too much bass boominess, but I've also boosted at about 8-10 kH. I may have to leave the higher end alone and see what that does to the final sound. I guess what I meant about the virtual instruments is that I seem to have less trouble managing all the possible variables rather than with live instruments. I haven't had to worry about mic placement or anything in the room vibrating at the same frequency and being picked up by the mic. I have that trouble with recording the live grand piano -- even a paper clip or a light a few feet away can sympathetically vibrate, and it's really difficult to locate the culprit sometimes! I do notice that if I use a higher range in my vocals, using a light head voice (with a lot of "oohiness"), rather than using a lower range, I have a lot more difficulty getting the EQ right. I use that lighter and higher range for the preschool children on purpose, so I need to stick with a range of about A below middle C to C above middle C. Thanks for the suggestions -- any others are welcome. Cheryl

[cmchamp]

Make sure you're not saturating any part of the signal path, analog or digital. I just cleaned up some family recordings from old cassettes which were recorded with old automatic volume control systems. Very saturated between 250Hz and 1kHz.
I utilized a multi-band compressor, compressing the 250Hz to 2kHz band 1.25:1, then a wide Q 3dB cut at 500Hz and another wide Q 3dB cut at 1kHz.
This worked well, especially after de-noising the original recordings. Out of 19 tracks, 18 turned out great. 1 was beyond my ability to repair.
C.

[ChooChoo]

I've listened to several professionally mastered CDs through the little speakers of a computer, and some vibrate the speakers at a useable volume, and some don't. If I turn down the volume on my recordings, the speakers don't vibrate, but then they're too soft. They sound fine though even through a cheap pair of headphones, and even at a high volume. Do engineers try to squash the sound by compressing so even cheap CD players (like the one I have to use at school) don't vibrate at a loud enough volume to be useable? Or do most people just wire larger speakers to their CD players (if possible)? I'm trying to keep my mic input level on the MBox2 high enough for a good waveform without clipping. When I do see any clipping, I either fix it in ProTools or in CD Architect by adjusting the waveform just at the clipping point and leaving the rest of the track alone. (Or I just re-record and sing softer on those parts.) I've been adjusting the volume at the master fader of CD Architect, and that seems to be helping, but then I have to turn up the volume on my good CD player I have at home. I'm really concerned that people who download my songs on a children's mp3 player won't get a good sound. I'm recording in a room measuring 11 x 35-feet, with concrete floors covered by a thin carpet, wallboard walls, four windows with no curtains, two doors (one with only thin curtains), a sprayed on ceiling, and lots of furniture with hard surfaces and only two soft surface chairs. Should I experiment with some baffles behind me when recording? Thanks, Cheryl

[5454stevef]

trying to keep my mic input level on the MBox2 high enough for a good waveform without clipping. When I do see any clipping, I either fix it in ProTools or in CD Architect by adjusting the waveform just at the clipping point and leaving the rest of the track alone.

With 24-bit recording it's not as big a deal as it once was to use every bit of dynamic range. If you're tracking so hot that you are having to manually edit waveforms, why not track a few db lower and make life easier for yourself? I for sure wouldn't adjust the level of the signal by singing softer - that's what the gain knob is for - belt it out and use the gain control to trim it back until it's not clipping.

I'm not suggesting recording at such a low level you have to come back and normalize or something, but you have more margin for erring on the low side than you do on the high.

About the low frequency build-up issue, it's really easy to go off the rails tonally if you work on things for long periods with no outside references. Do an A/B comparison between your mix and a commercial CD of your preference. You may find that your mix is overly bassy and you just don't perceive it that way. I always find I have a tendency to want to make things hit harder in the low end - then I take 'em to the car and holy cow, farting speakers all over the place. It's not as bad now that I have better monitors and a bigger room - small monitors with limited bass response will cause you to pump the bass unless you consciously avoid doing so.

You can download a free spectrum analyzer here:

http://www.rndigital.org/inspector.html

It works great, and is very effective for showing frequency content problems in a signal; the window is so small you can't really zero in with much precision but gross problems will be obvious. It's also useful for comparing the spectra of your own mix vs. a commercial one.

SF

[SoloArtist]

I've listened to several professionally mastered CDs through the little speakers of a computer, and some vibrate the speakers at a useable volume, and some don't. If I turn down the volume on my recordings, the speakers don't vibrate, but then they're too soft. They sound fine though even through a cheap pair of headphones, and even at a high volume. Do engineers try to squash the sound by compressing so even cheap CD players (like the one I have to use at school) don't vibrate at a loud enough volume to be useable? Or do most people just wire larger speakers to their CD players (if possible)? I'm trying to keep my mic input level on the MBox2 high enough for a good waveform without clipping. When I do see any clipping, I either fix it in ProTools or in CD Architect by adjusting the waveform just at the clipping point and leaving the rest of the track alone. (Or I just re-record and sing softer on those parts.) I've been adjusting the volume at the master fader of CD Architect, and that seems to be helping, but then I have to turn up the volume on my good CD player I have at home. I'm really concerned that people who download my songs on a children's mp3 player won't get a good sound. I'm recording in a room measuring 11 x 35-feet, with concrete floors covered by a thin carpet, wallboard walls, four windows with no curtains, two doors (one with only thin curtains), a sprayed on ceiling, and lots of furniture with hard surfaces and only two soft surface chairs. Should I experiment with some baffles behind me when recording? Thanks, Cheryl

Hey Cheryl,

I did some vocal recordings with a BOSS BR-1200CD. I've found that going through a signal processor first eliminated a lot of mastering issues, such as adding compression later on.
My rig is a DigiTech Vocalist Live 4 and I use an Audio-Technica ATM-710 condenser microphone. The compression is added by the signal processor before it hits the recorder and since I'm hearing the performance through the studio monitors, I can pretty much tell what I'm going to end up with.
There is a mastering tool kit built into the recorder but since I took care of all this stuff with a signal processor, I really didn't need to touch it up. Everything...compression, reverb, delay, harmonies was already there, perfectly balanced and burned onto the finished CD.