24 track recorders...

[xstatic]

I am currently looking to replace a 40 track ADAT rig with a 24 track recorder. I am considering the Mackie, or the Alesis, or, if the cash flow can support it, an Otari Radar system. i basically have a few questions about the units.
1) Do they all use standard IDE drives? Or do any of them use proprietary systems...
2) What is the difference in the AD/DA sytems onboard these units? (i.e... I can't afford good outboard AD/DA as of yet.....)
3) What kind of remotes do they come with? and is there any way to control the deck with a hardware controller for Cubase or Nuendo?
4) What is the I/O configs? ( It NEEDS to have 24 channels ADAT lightpipe for me, and I would prefer 24 TRS I/O over xlr or RCA, fits my patchbays better this way:) )
5) Anyone with real world experience with these? crashes? probs? likes?

Thanks, Rob @ xstatic studios

[Lawrence]

I went with the Alesis HD24. I can't really comment on the others. Here's why.

1. Cost per track is unbeatable in a hardware disk recorder. $84 per track.
2. 24 ADAT I/O standard.
3. 24 A/D and D/A converters
4. It uses most any IDE drive, 5400 rpm works fine.

Bottom line for me...

Because I was already using a d8b and Cubase I didn't need all the editing features of the Mackie HDR or Radar. I got 24 very good quality A/D and D/A converters for free. That was a big selling point for me. So using the d8b as the center of the studio I've got 24 I/O to Cubase and 24 I/O to the HD24 for a 48 track studio with 48 A/D and D/A converters. Your situation may differ.

Now for the down side...

There is no real FF, RW or scrubbing in the conventional sense. Yep you heard me. Press a RW button and it rewinds...until you let it go. Turn a scrub wheel on a midi controller and guess what? Nothing. How could a deck with no FF or RW "lock" scrub? It can't as far as I know. Track arming and MMC (-scrub) work fine. I do all of the locating, transport etc. from the d8b.

Good luck with your choice whatever it is. No matter which unit you choose they're all gonna "sound" the same unless you use the on board converters.

Lawrence

[cmchamp]

Rob:
Here's what I know about Mackie stuff.
Neither the MDR24/96 nor the HDR24/96 has mic pre's. Both can be configured with any of the DB8's I/O cards, meaning you could input with the AIO*8's, then swap out to the OPT8 or PDI8 for either lightpipe or AES/EBU output. They both use proprietary ATA drives, but I'll see if I can do some research here and find some more answers. Both can be controlled with optional remotes, the Remote 24 is a comact version, the Remote 48 is a full function remote. The 48 can control two MDR's or HDR's. Both can be controlled by a DAW.
The HDR adds monitor, keyboard and mouse connections as well as graphical editing. In addition, the HDR seemlessly works with the DB8.
Back to I/O configs, the DIO*8 has the D25 connectors for the ins and outs. You can get connector cables at any length for TRS. It's my understanding that once you've got your inputs, you can swap the DIO*8's for the OPT8 cards and get your 24 channels of lightpipe.
I dont' know about the Alesis or the Otari.

There is also a less expensive SDR24 that has the D25 analog in and 24 channels of lightpipe out. Only works with the Remote 24

Mackie's Soundscape looks like the bomb, but I'm not buying a PC to run it. You can also get their I/O896 with 8 analog ins via D25's and Apogee AD converters. The Mixtreme PCI card has DSP processing powers as well as VST plugins for control vial Cubase etc. Their software looks pretty sweet also, but again, I'm not buying a PC to run it.

Hope someone else can speek on the other brands for you. Sorry, as a new dealer, I haven't taken (had) the time to look at the competition.

[xstatic]

Looks Like I have the ruled the Mackie completely out due to lack of conventional I/O schemes. The Radar looks good, but so does the HD24. I have been told several times that the Mackie converters sound better, but I will just add outboard ad/da. Also, if the Alesis accepts standard IDE drives, I have a connection for 60 gig 7200 RPM ata 133 AV drives at $85 a whack. Way cheaper than ADAT tapes, even at 96 k:)) Hopefully I will be able to control the Alesis unit either with a patch from my current BRC, or from the new Mackie Control for Cubase SX. Tx:)

[Foreverain4]

another cool thing about the alesis is that it integrates seamlessly with an adat system. you will have no problem controlling this unit with the BRC. you can even sync it with your existing adats if you need overflow tracks.




lynn
www.therecordinghouse.com

[xstatic]

Tx Lynn. I knew I could sync it, but wasn't sure how the BRC would fit in. Especially since it works better with Blackface ADATS then 20 bit ones. On an off note, I went to your website, I have been considering unloading my Teac 80-8. If you are interested, let me know. It has a nice little slanted wood rack, and has rack mounted external dolby noise reduction units.

[Foreverain4]

hey xstatic! check your PM.

[michaelhoddy]

The Alesis HD24 converters sound quite good actually for what they are. I was pleasantly surprised. I haven't compared to those of the Mackie, but I can say that the HD24 converters are at least better the the ADAT XT20 converters, if for nothing else but the extra 4 bits. But the high frequencies sound better as well to my ears.

The RADAR is hands down the best of the recorders you mentioned, being in many people's mind the next best thing to 2-inch tape sonically. But it also costs more. Most of the RADAR line uses SCSI drives, except for the least expensive RADAR "project" recorder, which uses ultra-ATA IDE drives.

[xstatic]

So does the Alesis format the drives in some sort of proprietary format? And what file type does it save files as. I would just love to find out that I could just remove the Hard Drive when I am done tracking and just drop it in my tower. I already have 2 removabale HD bays in my tower. No huge deal though becuase I still have fifty some channels of Optical ins. Just thought it would save time, plus, one less file conversion.

[michaelhoddy]

I don't think it's shipping quite yet (maybe it is? I'm out of touch), but Alesis has been developing a FireWire device that you can mount HD24 drives to for direct transfer into your computer. Someone correct me if I'm spouting misinformation.

Until then, you can still transfer files from the HD24's ethernet port, which shows up as a file server when you attach it to your LAN. It's only 10 mbps instead of 100, so it takes a long time for large drives and files.

[xstatic]

I was actually wondering about placing the drive right into my tower using my removable HD bays. This way I could internally transfer it over to my raid array for editing.

[Lawrence]

Xstatic:

I do have my HD24 up for sale. Contact me if you're interested.

P.S. The good comments I posted about the recorder were not so I could sell it to you later. I meant everything I said, I love it. I'm just moving in a different direction.

Lawrence

[drmad69]

I got the hd24 in may for my birthday. I was replacing 2 motu 2408's.
Mainly for ease of use, not sound quality, I really don't remember
what the motu's "sounded" like now.
There is special beta software needed to put the alesis drive into
a win98 machine, however alesis says they won't ever be releasing that
software. I'd find it horrible to be without, I used to ftp the files, now I have the drives shipped to me, it's faster, unless I only need a track.
(My hd24 isn't where I live you see.)

It's funny, I went in the hd24 direction and love it dearly, because other people (the band) have to hit record and daw software was a big holdup point for them.

But now that they've had a recorder and the daw software, they could probably actually run it. Myself however will probably make the next purchase something like a minime that's of utmost quality but can
only do one/two tracks at a time..
hd24 for scatch tracks and say the minime to redo the individual tracks.

Don't get me wrong the stock ad/da's sound just as good as their adat equivilants. It's just people are even more demanding now adays.