Apple holding out on Digi for pre-release development?

[Tarktones]

This is purely speculation but I wanted to throw it out there.

Before Apple releases an OS, they usually partner with their developers to provide beta versions and things so that 3rd parties won't be too far behind with their own update. Given that in the DAW realm Logic is Pro Tools' biggest competition, is there any evidence to suggest that Apple is being less than cooperative in providing pre-release info on Leopard to Digi?

I know these things can take a long time to update, especially with all the features Apple puts into their updates and with how deep and rich Pro Tools is, but even so... 4 months after the release is a LONG TIME to finally put out a compatible product. Of course, HD has been compatible for a few weeks now and since that's their most important client base, that makes sense.

It would make sense to me, although I'd think that the few hundred users who would convert to Logic as a result of frustration with Digi's overdue compatibility would be easily wiped out by any fines imposed by the FTC.

In all honesty, I'm inclined to believe both parties are ethical in the matter and it's just every bit the monster task of keeping these apps up to date that I think it is, but it seemed like an interesting enough thought. Anyone have any evidence or opinions one way or the other?

[tech1]

Brian,
I think a large part of that is because with Apple, there is one current PCI architecture to work with. With PC, you have as many as you have motherboards....so...thousands? Tens of thousands? I think Apogee is trying to get a very high-performance system with zero headaches. Limiting themselves like this is a way to do that.

[brianbfw]

makes sense to me. it's all $$ in the end.

I am Logic and DP user. I use the apogee symphony system.

apogee and apple defintely have something "behind the scenes" going.

more and more, i've been getting projects to mix in windows. I would like to be able to use my symphony rig with windows. it's just a PCIe card connection, so there should be no problem making drivers to work on the windows platform.

still apogee has no plans to ever make their symphony system work on the windows platform.

my guess is that apple has got some kind of agreement with apogee.

[Smithcok]

Yeah, (although there is no factual evidence for my thoughts) this pattern of "we are so close to compatibility" and then "wait longer" and then "we are REALLY close" and then "wait for another Leopard release".... sounds fishy.

It would seem like Apple's wildest dream to have people switching from PT to Logic, all because PT can't get compatible with Apple's OS. Of course, Logic is having problems with Leopard too though.

Just speculation obviously. Now that the rumor is April, lets hope when we get there, they don't push it back again.

[Tarktones]

All I'm sayin' is, I'm glad that I haven't upgraded to Leopard yet!

[Rad]

Russ, keep in mind that similar driver delays were there for the Presonus Vista stuff, for Onyx for vista (just came out January), and a bunch of other things that came out with like a year of delay after the launching of this new OS. Who knows what is the true reason, but it seems that the problem is not entirely specific to Apple/Apogee.
I think Matt's point is well-made that in the PC world, there's hundreds of board architectures, some of which highly unfirendly to digital audio despite formally meeeting the criteria for "RoHS compliant" and other crap like that. The sad thing is, to date there is no procedure to get a card certified so that you know it would always work for digital audio. Thus, people are forced to rely mainly on brand reputation (for example, Texas Instruments is known for making Firewire chipsets that do work for digital audio, similarly Apogee systems have a reputation for being glitch-free). My guess is that in this reputation-driven situation, firms like Apogee find themselves hard pressed to only release stuff that they can be 100% sure will work. It's kind of hard to pass as a manufacturer of boutique audio gear if a sufficiently large number of clients starts complaining about compatibility issues, even if the fault is in their own PCs.

[Tarktones]

Yeah, I definitely agree on the parallels that Presonus had getting drivers up to date and everything. Like I said, I have no evidence just that I thought it was a little curious. That's all.

[aitikin]

Honestly, I just think that's kinda Digi for you. Digidesign, in my all too limited experience, has always been slow to update. Heck I remember them getting intel drivers out like 9-12 months after the first intel macs came out, and even then, they were just for specific units. I don't know, to me Digi seems like they don't really care all too much about their customers.

Again, just my $.02, but that's one of the reasons I don't buy their hardware.

[Tarktones]

Well, I'd be interested to see the numbers and how it compares with their business model. LE is not the focus of their software and hardware development, so it doesn't amaze me that it plays second banana to HD systems in terms of updates. But I'd be curious to see what portion of their income is from HD vs. LE. Frankly I think LE has done better than they ever intended it to do.