EQ for classical guitar/acoustic instruments

[brianbfw]

I recorded my CD at home (tracking with Earthworks QTC1, earthworks preamps and LA-610, apogee symphony system).

I have a good sound. now it's time to mix.

there's so many choices, i don't know where to start.

I)if i mix in the box, what's a good choice. i can't have any digital chill, so are there any "warm" sounding emulations?

2)Out of the box - i've still got many friends who swear by analog gear, so it could be an API EQ, Neve EQ?

I've got about $2200 to spend for this. I'm not looking for the cheapest solution, but the best audio solution. I'm a professional guitarist, so i'll be using this studio for many things, mainly classical music.

the DAW i use is Logic and Digital Performer.

Thanks
brian

[Smithcok]

Personally, in the box, I think the Sony Oxford EQ is absolutely amazing.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/OxEQLE/

[tech1]

I use UAD-1 plugins, and the Pultec EQ is amazing. Definitely has lots o' that warm fuzzy feeling...

[jpleong]

I (really) like TC Fabrik C. How do you plan on using EQ?

If you were to use TC Powercore, you can try out Fabrik and the Sononx (successor to the Sony Oxfords).

JP

[Smithcok]

I use UAD-1 plugins, and the Pultec EQ is amazing. Definitely has lots o' that warm fuzzy feeling...

Yeah that rocks too

[brianbfw]

thanks for the responses.

so is it a general consenses here that most of you would prefer to mix "in the box" vs using outboard gear?

it is easier and cheaper.

i'd have heard good things about sony oxford, but there are only for Pro Tools, which i don't use.

Another topic:
how about reverb? there's alot of talk about convelution reverbs? waves, audioverb? so many choices? anybody have any preferences? i have an outboard lexicon 500 which sounds good, but would the software reverbs plugins sound better?

thanks again

[tech1]

I mix in the box by necessity (I don't have an outboard mixer). I also use Altiverb, which I find to be so much more realistic and smooth than any other algorithm-based verb I've used (Waves reverbs, UAD-1 reverbs, MX200, D-Verb). My $0.02.

[jpleong]

You might also want to take a look at the Liquid Mix for its sheer volume of EQ and compressors.

Convolution and impulse technology is a resource hog, by the way!

JP

[slicraider]

I use UAD-1 plugins, and the Pultec EQ is amazing. Definitely has lots o' that warm fuzzy feeling...


Having always used the hardware version I'm curious if you have ever a/b'ed the two.

[slicraider]

thanks for the responses.

so is it a general consenses here that most of you would prefer to mix "in the box" vs using outboard gear?

it is easier and cheaper.

i'd have heard good things about sony oxford, but there are only for Pro Tools, which i don't use.

Another topic:
how about reverb? there's alot of talk about convelution reverbs? waves, audioverb? so many choices? anybody have any preferences? i have an outboard lexicon 500 which sounds good, but would the software reverbs plugins sound better?

thanks again


I have to say that just passing signal through outboard imparts a cool sound. Cheaper maybe but certainly you have to consider that it takes a lot more studio time tweaking plug-ins than good outboard gear in order to make it sound good.

I'm all for Altiverb.

[Smithcok]

Cheaper maybe but certainly you have to consider that it takes a lot more studio time tweaking plug-ins than good outboard gear in order to make it sound good.

I'm going to disagree with that.

I think at worst, plug-ins are just as quick as patching through outboard gear. I think plugs get a slight edge in efficiency because of recalls/presets/etc

The "sounds" of the two is up for debate though, its all subjective and situational.

I still say SonnoxEQ or Pultec, and altiverb

[michaelhoddy]

The big plusses of plug-ins are recallability, and also the fact that your signal is not having to take two trips through conversion to get the job done (assuming you're bouncing through it, not tracking). This alone is a big detriment in any sonic advantages analog outboard may have, unless your conversion on both sides is absolutely stellar.

I bounce and track through analog outboard only when I feel that the plug-ins simply can't get the job done. For me, this is mostly with compressors- I still haven't used a plug-in compressor I feel nails the traits of a good piece of outboard (I like compressors to have a sound and coloration, not just reduce dynamic range).

But for EQ, I feel plug-ins can do a very good and credible job, assuming a good plug-in. Many of the ones already mentioned (like the Sony Oxford) do a good job of this. I also like the Waves LinEQ quite a bit.

To the original poster: "Warm" comes from the original instrument, the acoustical environment you're recording in, the microphones used and their positioning, the mic pre (but less than people think so long as you're using a good one) AND the A/D converters (most people miss this one. Good A/D may not sound "warm" in the traditional analog sense, but lesser A/D DOES go a long way toward making things sound small, sterile, and harsh).

"Warm" does not come from plug-ins. Sure, there are a few that can fatten things up somewhat, but if it's not in the original, unaltered tracks, you're not going to create it out of thin air.

ALSO, if you already have a good sound, and especially in classical music, why do you need to EQ at all? What's missing? Your best sound will always come if you're not having to turn knobs to get it. Any knob-turn is a trade-off, one in which you're introducing a compromise to the sound (phase shift) in the hopes of offsetting a bigger problem (some frequency inconsistency). It's always better if you can achieve this before mix-down, and the vast majority of classical-style records of any breed will not have any EQ on them. And this is for a reason.

[slicraider]

I'm going to disagree with that.

I think at worst, plug-ins are just as quick as patching through outboard gear. I think plugs get a slight edge in efficiency because of recalls/presets/etc

The "sounds" of the two is up for debate though, its all subjective and situational.

I still say SonnoxEQ or Pultec, and altiverb

I was referring to the extra tweaking plug-ins require as opposed to hardware before it sounds good. As for recalls I don't get it. I've had half a dozen recalls in the last fifteen years. People are being driven by the technology and in many cases have sucked the life out of most mixes. Some of my best mixes (according to independent reviews) have been done off the cuff in three to six hours. PERFECT RECORDS ARE BORING!!!! (not that you would do that)

[brianbfw]

I've have decided to go with Altiverb and i love it! i'd recommend it to anyone looking for a plugin reverb. beautiful sound, really authentic sounding.

as far as EQ, i completely agree with the above posts, if it's recorded right, you shouldn't need any EQ, especially with classical insturments.

i have a few tracks that need some touch up, very miminal, like a small boost around 3K of about 1.2db, and really that was my fault for recording without putting on my usual fresh strings. i'm trying to recapture the "sizzle" of a brand new set of augustine's.

i have a few tracks that i have bass proximity problem. so i was going to use eq to do a bass roll off, but the best thing would be to just re record it.

thanks for all the posts, very helpful.

[slicraider]

I've have decided to go with Altiverb and i love it! i'd recommend it to anyone looking for a plugin reverb. beautiful sound, really authentic sounding.

as far as EQ, i completely agree with the above posts, if it's recorded right, you shouldn't need any EQ, especially with classical insturments.

i have a few tracks that need some touch up, very miminal, like a small boost around 3K of about 1.2db, and really that was my fault for recording without putting on my usual fresh strings. i'm trying to recapture the "sizzle" of a brand new set of augustine's.

i have a few tracks that i have bass proximity problem. so i was going to use eq to do a bass roll off, but the best thing would be to just re record it.

thanks for all the posts, very helpful.

Before re-recording you might want to try a multi-band compressor and expand the frequencies in question as opposed to using EQ. It's more subtle than EQ and I've had great results on vocals using this method. I bet it will work on classical guitar just as well.

[Tarktones]

I was referring to the extra tweaking plug-ins require as opposed to hardware before it sounds good. As for recalls I don't get it. I've had half a dozen recalls in the last fifteen years. People are being driven by the technology and in many cases have sucked the life out of most mixes. Some of my best mixes (according to independent reviews) have been done off the cuff in three to six hours. PERFECT RECORDS ARE BORING!!!! (not that you would do that)

I think it's the fact that sessions can be opened and closed with no loss of time setting up or zero-ing the session. For the engineer in a commercial studio, you aren't wasting time making patches and resetting knobs for setup or tear down. You can shuffle clients and engineers in and out with little down time inbetween.

For me, I know there are times when I'll let my computer shut off for a bit or overnight when I'm working on a project. I can pull up a mix for a client if they want a change and BAM! It's there. I make the change, bounce and it's over and I can get back to what I'm doing.

Let's also not forget the beauty of automation.

[Smithcok]

I was referring to the extra tweaking plug-ins require as opposed to hardware before it sounds good.

I guess I don't understand why plug-ins would require more tweaking that a hardware unit. You turn the knobs on a plug-in just like on a hardware device.

And, yeah, as Tarktones said. I wasn't really referring to presets and saved settings. I was referring to when you recall a mix/project, you don't have to set gear manually off of notes or recall sheets.

I love outboard gear, don't get me wrong though.

[brianbfw]

Making presets is a very convient way of saving settings. You could spend a whole weekend going through all the reverbs of altiverb. I make my own presets and save them.

I still use good old recal sheets for my tube pre's and compressors sometimes when i get a sound that i love. actually, now i just take a close up digital photo of it.

i can't say enough about how good Altiverb sounds.