Please Help: Connecting Neutrik Patchbay to AW16G!!

[MitchM2006]

Hey guys, I need serious mojo and advice...

I've got the following external equipment:
(1) Behringer Headphone amp (HA4600/Power Play Pro)
(1) Behringer Virtualizer Pro (DSP2024P)
(1) Samson Stereo [Compressor/Limiter/Expander/Gate] (S Com Plus)
(1) dbx Provocal [mic pre/tube emulator]
(1) TC Helicon Voiceworks [Harmony/Correction/Effects processor]

Last week, thinking that it would be easier to invest in a patchbay, instead of going behind my external equipment all the time, and hardwiring it from the external equipment to the 16G, went out and bought a Neutrik Patchbay (NYS-SPP-L1), thinking that would be much more flexible.
When I came home, I was expecting the instruction manual to be easy to follow installing a patchbay, what turns out to be, is that I have no idea on how to connect all my external equipment that I have to the patchbay.

What I really need is someone to please walk me through making the proper connections from the 16G to the patchbay to my external equipment.

I understand the front of the patchbay has 2 rows, 24 connectors each..
so the top row has 24, and the bottom row has 24...the top row is labled A..and the top row is labled B.

According to the documents and info that I have been reading for a week now, the top front row is usually used for outputs, while the bottom front row is usually used for inputs.

When I look at the rear of the patchbay, i'm totally lost,
cause it shows the same exact layout, as the front of that patchbay,
I have no idea if the rears are outputs only, or inputs & outputs.

Would anybody please have time to reply back and offer advice on the best way to connect an external patchbay to the 16G and then to my various external equipment?

Thank you so very much for help in advance, this forums a great place to be.

[5454stevef]

Hey guys, I need serious mojo and advice...

I've got the following external equipment:
(1) Behringer Headphone amp (HA4600/Power Play Pro)
(1) Behringer Virtualizer Pro (DSP2024P)
(1) Samson Stereo [Compressor/Limiter/Expander/Gate] (S Com Plus)
(1) dbx Provocal [mic pre/tube emulator]
(1) TC Helicon Voiceworks [Harmony/Correction/Effects processor]

Last week, thinking that it would be easier to invest in a patchbay, instead of going behind my external equipment all the time, and hardwiring it from the external equipment to the 16G, went out and bought a Neutrik Patchbay (NYS-SPP-L1), thinking that would be much more flexible.
When I came home, I was expecting the instruction manual to be easy to follow installing a patchbay, what turns out to be, is that I have no idea on how to connect all my external equipment that I have to the patchbay.

What I really need is someone to please walk me through making the proper connections from the 16G to the patchbay to my external equipment.

I understand the front of the patchbay has 2 rows, 24 connectors each..
so the top row has 24, and the bottom row has 24...the top row is labled A..and the top row is labled B.

According to the documents and info that I have been reading for a week now, the top front row is usually used for outputs, while the bottom front row is usually used for inputs.

When I look at the rear of the patchbay, i'm totally lost,
cause it shows the same exact layout, as the front of that patchbay,
I have no idea if the rears are outputs only, or inputs & outputs.

Would anybody please have time to reply back and offer advice on the best way to connect an external patchbay to the 16G and then to my various external equipment?

Thank you so very much for help in advance, this forums a great place to be.

You mention a piece of equipment called a 16G but don't say what that is.
Going out on a limb I guess it is a Yamaha AW-16G.

How you connect them depends to a great degree on how you plan to use the various devices.

The Neutrik patchbays (I have a similar if not identical model) come configured from the factory in what's called "half-normal" configuration.

The patch bay has 24 pairs of jacks on its front and 24 pairs on its back.
Normally the top and bottom jacks on the rear panel are connected to one another. In other words, if you have a set of outputs you want to have continuously connected to a set of inputs, you would connect the outputs to the top row and the inputs to the bottom row on the back panel. For example, if you have a 24-track recorder and a mixer with 24 direct outs, you could connect the direct outs to the top row, and the inputs of the recorder to the bottom row.

This is better than simply using a cable because it allows you easy access to any of the inputs or outputs without disconnecting anything, simply by plugging into the corresponding jacks on the front.

On the Neutrik, one of the four jacks on each channel is grey - this jack switches off the connection between the two rows on that channels' rear jacks. The factory configuration is that the grey jack is the bottom jack on the front. This means that if you plug something into this jack, it breaks the connection between the top and bottom rear jacks on the same channel and simply brings the input and output connections to the front. This allows you to connect another piece of gear into the loop, or simply have access to the inputs and outputs of whatever is plugged into the back. If you plug something into the top front jack, you get the signal that's passed thru from the top rear jack, but it also stays connected to the bottom rear jack. This allows you to send signal from one device to more than one place.

The other way of configuring the Neutrik is called "isolated", which means that the top rear jack of each channel is simply connected to the top front jack of the same channel and the bottom jack back goes to bottom jack front, etc.. This is what I'd recommend for your situation, because you'll be using the same gear on various inputs and outputs depending on what you're doing.

The four jacks on each "channel" are all on a single PC board that can be flipped around to change the configuration, that is, which jack does the switching. In order to set up your patch bay for "isolated" operation, you have to take the front panel off and flip the PC cards so that the grey jack is on the top rear row. You can flip them all or flip only certain ones, it just depends on what your needs are.

WARNING... on mine, when I took the panel off, it took some doing to get everything lined back up well enough to put the panel back on.

In this configuration you'd simply be plugging your gear into the back panel, and then using short patch cables to make connections on the front panel between the recorder and the outboard devices as needed. Without sketching it out I can't say if you have enough patch points to put everything into the patch bay, but it should be close.

Making a sketch is a good idea in visualizing what you're doing, by the way.

I'd set aside however many jacks on the bottom row you need to bring all the 1/4" line inputs of the 16G to patch bay, and use the top row for the various stereo outs or line outs. Be sure to label everything clearly, then connect the various ins and outs to the back panel jacks.

This will probably take up six or eight "channels", which should leave you with enough open points to connect everything else. If you're connecting a stereo compressor, for example, you'd connect its outputs to two adjacent top rear jacks, and its inputs to the bottom rear jacks. DON'T do it this way unless you have flipped the PC cards - if you do it without changing the configuration of the patch bay you're simply connecting the outputs of the devices to their inputs which is a great way to damage the device.

Anyway, you do this with each device that has an input and output, and label everything.

Now, any time you want to use one of the devices, whether in series with one another or with the 16G, all you have to do is plug patch cables into the appropriate patch points on the front and you're in business. For example, plug a cable into the "output" jack where the mic pre is connected and jumper it to one of the line inputs of the recorder, or to an input of the compressor, etc.

If you do have certain connections you would use all the time, such as putting a compressor across the stereo out of the recorder, you can leave some of the cards in half-normal configuration and use them for that. You'll still have access to the patch points from the front jacks.

It's great having this all set up and labeled, the main downside is you have to buy a bunch of cables, and the fact that if you use "isolated" mode you will always have a number of cables plugged in, but it saves a ton of hassle having everything right there.

This may not be that clear until you try it, but I hope it helps.

I agree that Neutrik's documentation is lacking. Hosa has a much better explanation here:

http://www.hosatech.com/hosa/downloads/PHB340_350.pdf

The details of the hardware may differ but the concepts are similar and may give you a better idea how to use the unit you have.

SF

[MitchM2006]

WOW..thank you guys so VERY much for this info..it was very much helpful, I appreciate all the time that you spent on my question...One last question..
The desk I use is the AW16G, it does not have any inserts, but its got a stereo/aux out, its limiting cause you can either have the stereo out, or the aux out, but not both.
so i've got an unbalanced cable from the aux out on the 16G to the input on my Voiceworks TC Helicon Voiceworks processors, and then I send the outputs, using balanced cables into the patchbay on the back...the patchbay works like a charm, not sure if its bal or unbal, will have to check that out..and then I use my headphones out jack from the AW16G to my Behringer headphone amp..sofar, thats the only way I can trick it.
Also..When I connected my aux outs from the 16G into an input on the Voiceworks, (using unbalanced cables), and then connected the output of the Voiceworks to an open input on the 16G (using unbalanced cables), I'm hearing a harmonic sound, its not a buzz, its more like a pitch...its very faint, and I'm thinking its becuase the aux output of the 16G is unbalanced, so thats causing the Voiceworks to sound that way?