Too many problems with the hi-hat.

[cesaral]

Hello.

I have a problem with the hi-hat in all my recordings. The volume that she appears for the overheads is very high, so much that the track that I use for the hi-hat the I always have in mute during the mix. Not I can control their volume without being left without cymbals signal. To eliminate with EQ the overhead tracks, would also suppose to vary too much the cymbals. I always use mics of condenser cardioides of small diaphragm like even A-B as overheads and a DeEsser at 13KHz approximately to clean the snare track.

It is possible that it is beginner's question, but please: which is your form of working with the hi-hat?

Thank you for its your interest. Greetings.
César.

[Dave Burris]

It is possible that it is beginner's question, but please: which is your form of working with the hi-hat?

Mic the hat separately. Unless you like that whoosh of air you should mic above or below. I generally opt for pointing about 1/2 way between the bell and the rim. Lately I used Shure 98D/S and clipped onto the stands.

[cesaral]

Thank you for the answer.

My problem is not what mic I have to use, but how I can eliminate the sound of the hat of the overheads tracks. This way I will be able to decide how much hat level I need from their own track. Now with the hat level that I have through the overheads I cannot separate it of the cymbals.

Greetings.

[EC_Beast]

Well, it kind of is a problem with what mic you're using, and how you're using it.

How are your overheads positioned? I generally position my OH's about 6 feet in the air and place them equally between the kit. That way, I'm getting more cymbal than anything. The hi-hat is usually mic'd separately, and the shield facing the cymbals to block out their signal as much as possible. So now you have individual control of hi-hat and cymbals.

[Dave Burris]

Well, it kind of is a problem with what mic you're using, and how you're using it.

Exactly!

Sorry I misunderstood your problem. With the problem reversed from what I was thinking, choice of mics and placement are crucial. You obviously can't move the hat, and if it's too loud versus the closer cymbals your choices are somewhat limited.

First, you will have to use directional mics instead of an omni. If you use a supercardioid positioned such that it points across the kit instead of straight down it will help some. Selecting your placement and angle such that another cymbal refects some of the sound may also be helpful.

As a general rule, any time you have to move away from an omni becuase of a loud source, you now have to think in terms of isolating the sound sources. You ultimately may find that a pair of overheads simply isn't going to work in this circumstance. You may have to move to closer mic techniques with more directional mics. Your EQ will have to be adjusted accordingly. The presence peaks of directional mics will cause the cymbals to sound too hot. You will almost certainly have to compensate.

You may want to consider smaller directional condensers on the underside of the individual cymbals.

[michaelhoddy]

How big is your room? It's a pain to get any kind of separation on the overheads if you're recording in a small room and all this stuff is just banging away all at once.

Also, it's kind of an unappreciated art, but good drummers acoustically "mix" the various drums and cymbals as they play by varying their hitting velocity and where they strike the drums or cymbals. The best tracks I've gotten have always been when the drummer played lighter on the cymbals and smacked the drums solidly. If your drummer is beating the crap out of the hat, no amount of fancy recording techique will fix it. You need to fix the drummer.

[Audioholic]

I agree with Michael, perhaps it is more of playing the kit dynamicaly rather then smasshing the crud out of everything, something all to common.

I don't mic my hi-hat anymore for me. I don't do a ton of live drum recording these days, but when i have miced the hats, I never used it, it always appeared in ample volume through the various mics on the kit, mainly the snare. I have since switched to a dynamic mic on the snares top, and this has also helped eliminate more hats coming in on the close in promximity snare drum mic.

[cesaral]

Not I have studio, for what I record in the locals of the band. As all we know, these locals are usually small and sometimes some have material acoustic in the walls.

As well you have said, I have never needed to add in the mix the hat track, with the sound picked up by the overhead it is enough. It seems that the only thing that I can make is to guide the cardioid overhead mic outside of the direct line of the hat.

Will this be the only form of being able to control the hi-hat level? Is it advisable to apply EQ to the overheads tracks to reduce their level?

Thank you for your interest.

[Leesayhey]

This is a common issue with recording drums. Are you getting more bleed from your snare mic or overheads? You can gate the snare mic so that sound only comes through when the snare is hit. Other things that work is moving the hi hat further away from the the kit, pretty much as far as the drummer will let you, you should see a dramatic change. I would suggest experimenting with the overheads, with different heights and positions, and same with the snare mic, you will notice that different positions can isolate the hi hat better, just be careful with phase issues.

[cesaral]

It is clear that my biggest problem with the hi-hat excess for the overheads is solved guiding the mics of small diaphragm outside of the direct line of the hat.
He would also help me using mics hypercardioid like OH.
I don't like to have to use gate with the snare, although he would also go well to reduce the level of hat of the mix, I prefer to use a deesser or compressor multiband adjusted in the 13kHz for this track.
To record in big spaces or conditioned acoustically it contributes to diminish the level taken place by the reflections.

I hope in my next recording it applies.

I have learned a lot with this. Thanks to all.

[robertallen]

This is a very strange suggestion...and you may laugh...but this is a part of the fun experimental silly side of me.

I worked on some tracks in a studio about 10 or 11 years ago in Ann Arbor, MI. They had this custom made block of (I'm guessing: 7x7x5) thick square wooden brick with carpet covering it attached to a small microphone stand. It was like a miniature gobo. Of course it only worked for drummers who played their hi-hat higher.

Anyways, aside from gating the snare all the time, they inserted this next to the snare mic, and it killed a TON of the hi-hat bleed. Amazing results.

I bet the materials probably cost around 30 bucks to put together if you're a handyman.

Aside from that out of the box suggestion...in most cases, using a lighter stick and having the drummer not beat the crap out their hi-hats every single time helps a great deal too. Lowering the width between the top and bottom hats can help too. It can also be the hi-hats themselves. Going with a pair of Zildjian Quick Beats or New Beats, with less shimmer gives great results.

[cesaral]

It is very ingenious that of the acoustic screen that you propose between the snare mic and the hat. The variation of the acoustics is something very beautiful to experience, to what it is necessary to dedicate a time but the benefits can be big. As soon as he can the I will prove.
Do you find well to use EQ in the overheads to eliminate part of hat sound? I don't see it very correct. Have you used condenser mics for the snare? Or they would pick up even more sound of the hi-hat.

[Smithcok]

You can also take a white styrofoam cup, poke a hole in the bottom, and put a 57 through it as a snare mic cover.

But,

In the end, just place your mics, listen to how they sound, and then move the mics until it is the best possible sound given the room. Small rooms will encourage hi-hat imperialism, as will a drummer who bangs on it like there's no tomorrow.

[Dave Burris]

You can also take a white styrofoam cup, poke a hole in the bottom, and put a 57 through it as a snare mic cover.

I would think the resonance of the inside of the cup would do strange things to the snare, not nearly the absorption you should have at those frequencies to avoid a resonant cavity. However, this is certainly a cheap solution in an emergency situation.

Just make sure your mic placement doesn't catch reflections of the hat off the snare body and this could help.

[cesaral]

Well, because all those indications will keep them in mind for the next recording. But before I will prove to use a dynamic hipercardioide like the Beta 57A. Have you used it?

[Smithcok]

I would think the resonance of the inside of the cup would do strange things to the snare, not nearly the absorption you should have at those frequencies to avoid a resonant cavity. However, this is certainly a cheap solution in an emergency situation.

Just make sure your mic placement doesn't catch reflections of the hat off the snare body and this could help.

Lol
Sorry, my sarcasm wasn't obvious enough. I am not actually suggesting that anyone do this. :banana:

I just saw it once at a place, and thought it was funny. (and yes it did make some weird reflections)

[Dave Burris]

Lol
Sorry, my sarcasm wasn't obvious enough. I am not actually suggesting that anyone do this. :banana:

I thought it sounded a little strange!;)

[Dave Burris]

Well, because all those indications will keep them in mind for the next recording. But before I will prove to use a dynamic hipercardioide like the Beta 57A. Have you used it?

The Beta 57 is a supercardioid, not a hypercardioid.