need mic/preamp/eq/comp solution

[brettjason]

Hi, I'm new to this forum so I hope I don't break any rules. My question is this: Soon I will have some cash to spend on Pro Gear (app. $2000+) and I was wondering what I should buy. Here is my current setup:

MICS
Shure SM57 and SM58
Shure BG 5.0
AKG 3800

BOARD
Mackie CR1604

MONITORS
Mackie hr824 (just bought from Sweetwater - Thanks Dave)

RECORDER
Tascam DA88 (don't really use anymore)
Pro Tools Digi001 w BombFactory

OUTBOARD
Ensoniq DP4

SYNTH
Korg M1
Kurzweil K2000RS

I record mostly Rock/Pop and I like a crisp full rock sound. (If you need to hear the type of music I do you can got to http://www.ssbumblebee.com ) I am looking to upgrade my "microphone to DAW" signal chain and I don't know how to best spend the money. I was looking at a U87ai because I am familiar with this microphone and how it records my vocal but I'm wondering if my money would be better spent on a cheaper microphone and a preamp, compressor, or EQ/Deesser. Dave at Sweetwater suggested the HHB radius 40 and an AKG c414B/ULS. I wanted to get some other opinions from this board. I've tracked in a professional studio with a u87 to NEVE 1272 pres through an LA2a compressor through a proprietary mixing board to 2" tape and ADAT and LOVED the sound. want to get similar sound in my home studio. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Brett

[BradLyons]

Brett,

Welcome to the group :-) Well, I am a HUGE fan myself of the HHB Radius 40. It's very under-rated and not that many are familiar with it, however I recommend it highly and second the recommendation to Dave's recommendation :-) yeah, sort that one out! haha Anyway, there is NO such thing as just getting a cheap microphone to make up for it in the signal path. This is like trying to lose weight without working out or eating healthy :-) The C414 is certainly a good microphone, but I really have to recommend a Soundelux U195. This is a bit more, but what a sound!! It's an FET microphone that has a nice warm full rich sound that also has some edge to it. It's a little over $1,000 with a schockmount but believe me...MONEY WELL SPENT!!! You certainly would be very happy with the AKG microphone, but for my money... I prefer the U195 better. I guarantee you if you were to use this microphone through the Radiu40, you'll be blown away for well under $2,000. If not, I know Dave will take care of you.....and WHICH Dave is that by the way, we have several but they are all good guys :-)

[brettjason]

Thanks Brad. I'm going to check out the U195. What does FET mean? It's good to hear another recommendation for the HHB unit. Speaking of which, is it possible to deess with the radius 40 using the sidechain and an EQ from a plugin to Pro Tools? Maybe I could deess during mix down. Random tangent I guess. By the way, it's Dave Brow that helped me. Thanks for the reply.

Brett

[BradLyons]

Rather than tell you here what FET is, I'll let you find it on our website so that you can learn more about it :-) Go to ou INSYNC section and under WORD FOR THE DAY, do a search for FET.... :-) As for De-Essing, I prefer to use it in software. WAVES has a plugin in their Native Power Pack that just rocks!!

[MichaelS]

I got one, I love it. In fact if it had breasts I'd marry it. Now this may be because it's my first tube MP and is kinda like going from an ugly girl to one you're not ashamed to take out in public...but I love it nonetheless.

[brettjason]

Thanks for the reply MichaelS. Which radius did you get? What did you have before? Obviously it made a lot of difference for you. What kind of changes did you notice? Does anybody have any other suggestions? Thanks.

Brett

[Pauly]

Originally posted by brettjason
Thanks for the reply MichaelS. Which radius did you get? What did you have before? Obviously it made a lot of difference for you. What kind of changes did you notice? Does anybody have any other suggestions? Thanks.

Brett

S a recommendation,I would say,stay away from Behringer.I own a Behringer tube ultragain and have been ver y displeased with it.The price was great and it came with all balanced ins and outs but the thing has no headroom.I have to crank it to get any decent signal out of it and then it starts to distort.I also have the focusrite voice master and am not crazy about the sound of it.It has aa better preamp in it than the Behringer and mre headroom though but I find the compressor is mediocre and doesn't have a desirable sound to it.

I am going to spend alot of money to bypass the whole midrange mic pre thing and get either a Avalon or equivelent preamp.the HHB is decent for the price but will never be a front runner compared to high end units.In the same price as the HHB is the Art Mp-pro.IT is actually decent.Certainly better sounding and more professional than my Behringer.Good luck

[EjbsMusicRoom]

If you have $2000 to spend buy an AVALON VT 737 SP mic pre for $2000.

Stop wasting your time with Behringer, Radius and microphones.

In time you can step up to the U87 or (better yet) a TLM 103. Save yourself even more $$$.

The 737 and SM58 combo will be great while nice U87-Behringer combo would suck.

In other words, the mic pre is more important than the mic.

Peace,
Ernest

[MichaelS]

I got the HHB radius 40 and regardless of what other people seem to think (opinions are like...well you know the qoute) I love it. Much cheaper than 2000.00 also, but is only one channel but I only use it on the vocal chain and some acoustic guitar. Friend of mine has an Avalon, not sure of the model but it was bought in the last 3 months and likes the sound I get out of the radius better(again, only for vocs). That could just be the way I use it though, dunno, I go for sound rather than how the manual says to use it. I also don't use the presets, but turn the knobs myself, seems to make a big difference. I'm also using a badass mic with it which I'm sure makes a big difference.

[paddyopossum]

Another preamp that bids fair to be killer good is the JoeMeek VC1Qcs. It's in the price range of the Radius. I've not heard it,,but my little Micromeek MQ3's blow me away(I have two), and the VC1Q promises to be all they are,,plus has the Enhancer.

[treidm]

Originally posted by paddyopossum
Another preamp that bids fair to be killer good is the JoeMeek VC1Qcs. It's in the price range of the Radius. I've not heard it,,but my little Micromeek MQ3's blow me away(I have two), and the VC1Q promises to be all they are,,plus has the Enhancer.

You must have a twin PaddyO. you sound just like a guy on another forum, the Tascam forum, you should go and talk to him, you have similar opinions. His name is Fiddlepat, the site is www.tascam.com. He seems to be very nice guy and has alot of gear, so has A-B'ed alot of stuff. He speaks very highly of JoeMeek gear. You two would get along good!

I use an AKG C414B-ULS, and LOVE IT! I run it through a Focusrite PreAm. I'm going to get different PreAm though. I'm beginning to believe the $$ spent on the PreAm, is more important, if you got a descent mic, aposed to the $$ on the mic first, with a cheap pream. The 414 can do just about anything, including great vocals, if you EQ it. You need to EQ for vocals, because it is a really flat mic, though.
:) Reid

[paddyopossum]

It's me Reid. Hi.:D

[treidm]

Originally posted by paddyopossum
It's me Reid. Hi.:D

Do I know you?
:confused: Reid

[paddyopossum]

You know me as fiddlpat, on the Tascam 788 Board.

[treidm]

Hehe, I read that thread about monitors, it was great. I thought you would be under the same name, but didn't see Fiddlepat anywhere. I saw a bunch of the PaddyO. posts, and thought to myself, "This guy sounds just like Fiddlepat"! I'm embarrassed, hehe. This is a really good forum too! Some really knowledgable people hang out here, just not as busy as Tascam forums.
:D Reid

[brettjason]

Thanks for all the input. What does everybody think about a non tube preamp like a Neve remake. I've looked at the Amek and the Vintech. Not as much bells and wistles but I like the Neve sound. Would this be a better option than some of the other preamps mentioned? Thanks.

Brett

[treidm]

Hey, check sites #1 thru #3, you can get neve parts and build with a schematic. Or site #4 is for new mic pres made from old neve modules from boards, you can just buy. Hope this helps. If you are willing to spend neve prices, consider looking at Universal Audio products too.
:) Reid

#1 w3.one.net/~robgrow/circuits/neve/nevemicpre.html
#2 w3.one.net/~robgrow/circuits/neve/neveclassa.html
#3 www.technicalaudio.com/neve/obsolete/

#4 www.brentaverill.com/

[Ted]

In time you can step up to the U87 or (better yet) a TLM 103. Save yourself even more $$$.

The 737 and SM58 combo will be great while nice U87-Behringer combo would suck.

In other words, the mic pre is more important than the mic.
[/B]

Just curious...why do you like the TLM103 more than the U87?

Also, I'm not sure if I agree with the "mic pre is more important than the mic" necessarily...I think it depends on the particular micophone and preamp. I do believe that an SM58 through a 737 can sound pretty impressive, although I think in some cases you'd get better results with the U87 through the cheap preamp. It would vary depending on the source.

-Ted

[musicstudio41]

Lately, I've been using a Shure KSM 44 (bought 4 months ago) into an Avalon 737. I love the sound. It's great on vocals and acoustic guitars. I don't remember what the mic cost (maybe around 6 or 7 hundred?) but the Avalon was just under $2000.
Everyone I've worked with since I've added the Shure to my collection likes it over the 414 and the 103. It's worth giving it a listen. It's very versatile and for the price you can't beat it.

(By the way, if you don't have a great voice, try the Rode NT 1. Rode mics have a way of making just about anyone sound good because of their coloration. It's the mic I use for my voice.)

[EjbsMusicRoom]

Hi Ted,

I wouldn`t say I like the 103 better than the 87 but for the price, you get alot more mic for $700. I used the 87 for my voice and I must say I can not see the point in spending $2000 for a mic that did not greatly improve the sound of my voice.

As far as mic pres vs. mics: just from experience I know its more important to have a better pre. I used to use an AT4050 with an Aphex 107 mic pre. Very nice sound. Now I use the 737 with the 4050 and 103. From my experience, the 737 made the biggest difference on vocals. (However for guitars I still use the APHEX) Even now when I slap down rough vocals, I usually plug the SM57 into the 737. It sounds great but I would not plug the 103 into the APHEX. Even though this sounds fine too. Just that the 57 is so convenient to have up all the time.

I dissagree with you that you rather have an 87 and a cheap mic pre. No matter how good that mic is the pre amplifies it and also adds its own sound. Sometimes the mic pre can really damage the sound of a mic like an 87 (or any mic for that matter). Anyways, I think we agree its tough to turn down a good mic pre like a 737.

Peace,
Ernest

[Ted]

Thanks...I was just curious about the TLM103. I know a lot of people prefer it to the U87 since it's a little cleaner and has a wider dynamic range. Pretty great microphone for the money (or even for a lot more).

I'm still not entirely convinced on the idea of the pre being more important than the microphone, though. I think a totally crappy pre could certainly negate any added benefits you'd get from a really high-end microphone, but at the same time there are plenty of inexpensive decent preamps out there that really will give you just about everything a microphone has to offer. On the other hand, the best preamp in the world can't amplify what's not there in the first place...I think it's probably impossible to make a generalization either way. I'd think it would be better figured out on a case-by-case basis...for instance, I can see how an Aphex and a TLM103 (or U87) could be a bad combination (both can be pretty bright), especially on certain vocalists, but I'd rather have a U87 or TLM103 and a Presonus MP20 or Focusrite Platinum than an SM57 and an Avalon for most vocalists I've come across (but not all).

-Ted

[paddyopossum]

I know it's not in the range of the Avalon, but that little Focusrite Trak Master is a sweet sounding unit, too. I can afford the mid priced stuff,,that, and the JoeMeek VC1Qcs, MQ3's(those border on low end, but I think they sound great), but I can't afford the Avalons yet. Generally, if it's got a wall wart, it's low end,,but the RNC is an exception, an anomaly. Low end price, high end performance. :cool: