Studio monitors

[evan_ccs]

I need some studio monitors. I have no idea what to look for. It's preferable that the price be in the $200-$500 range. Passive or active, it doesn't matter.

It's a home project studio, but I master all my tracks too. There will be acoustical treatment. I also would prefer at least 5" LF drivers, but I'm open to all suggestions, because I've never used real studio monitors before.

[jpleong]

Does your price include a power amp?

I can easily recommend the Tannoy Reveal 6 Passives: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Reveal6/

The two things I tell people to look for in studio monitors is 1) accuracy and 2) translation. Good monitors should not make things sound better than they actually do and a mix done on a good pair should translate to different monitoring situations (ie, if the bass sounds good and the highs are bright in your studio, it should sound the same when you take it to, say, your car).

I have been able to achieve this with my Tannoy Reveals. And a good headphone pairing (for mixing, at least) is the Beyerdynamic DT-990.

JP

[evan_ccs]

Thanks! No that doesn't include a poweramp, because I already have one.

Although, are active monitors actually better? I'm assuming the price different is due to the presence of an amplifier, but correct me if I'm wrong.

[jpleong]

I am of the opinion that the active vs passive debate is really more subjective than can be equated with "better" or "worse." With passives, you can have more control over what amps to mate with which drivers while with actives, you have to go with what the manufacturer chose (which, in most cases is just fine).

Actives tend to have some sort of internal processing in addition to built-in power amps that some people like and some people don't. There's also the matter of amp, which you've answered. Do you have an actual studio amp or a hi-fi amp or do you have a PA amp? There are distinct and important differences between the three that need to be taken into consideration.

I got the passive Reveals for two reasons, 1) because it was cheaper and 2) the active Reveals, at the time, did not have as powerful an amplifier as I would have liked.

I, of course, feel that a passive pair of Tannoys in the sub-$500 price range is way better than just about any other manufacturers sub-$500 active monitors.

But I'm a little biased since I've owned them for five years.

JP

[evan_ccs]

Actually it is a PA amp. I never even stopped to think that that might make a difference. How big of a difference are we talking?

To be honest, I don't necessarily need the finest sound, or even the most accurate, but if I can't get a reasonably accurate, uncolored sound, I will need to invest in some active monitors, I guess.

[jpleong]

PA Amps usually have cooling fans that run fast and loud and budget PA amps have other issues (see my next post).

Since the Tannoys are only four hundred of your five hundred dollar price range, you should be shopping for an amplifier to match. The Samson Servo 120 is $159 -just fifty dollars more than your budget. And the Tannoys, as I've said before, are worth it.

JP

[DAS]

I'm not exactly sure where this is going, but there seems to be some insinuation that, perhaps, PA amps aren't as effective at producing certain frequencies. For the most part this is not the case at all. Every PA type amp of any quality will effectively amplify the full range of audio signals...and accurately.

I'm not saying there can't sometimes be differences between different amps, but a generalized assumption that "studio amps" are more accurate or higher quality (in terms of sound) than "PA amps" could lead someone down the wrong path.

Feel free to try it. Put an Alesis amp on a set of studio monitors and then try a Crown. Will the Alesis sound better because it's a "studio amp?" Well, it may or may not sound better to any individual for whatever reasons, but it's not like the Crown is inherently deficiant at doing the job of amplification.

All of that said, in most PA amps there is more design around durability. Power supplies are much beefier (which contributes to better sound quality), the chassis are much heavier, cicuit protection is more robust, and...they do have a lot more in them to help with cooling, which often times means a noisy fan. And these things all cost money. It's certainly valid to keep all of this in mind, but there isn't really any underlying, inherent sonic deficiency in an amp because it is billed as a PA amp.

Oh, and by the way, there is plenty of information below 60Hz in many live sound systems.

[jpleong]

It's certainly valid to keep all of this in mind, but there isn't really any underlying, inherent sonic deficiency in an amp because it is billed as a PA amp.

DAS, I agree with you!

I wasn't forming whole thoughts, which is my fault. Most good PA amps are very accurate and very linear. Working with the budget range, though, there are other factors that we can't ignore that contribute to what we consider accurate. Signal to noise ratio and self noise are a big factor (for me, at least) when working with near-field monitors. I have, indeed, done the very test you suggested but with my Samson Servo amp and an older (discontinued) Crown PA amp. The Crown had an unacceptable noise floor in addition to its noisy fan. I would suggest that this is an inherent deficiency at this price point (something I should have qualified from the beginning -my mistake!). I also have a pair of Samson SX series amps that also have an unacceptably high noise floor for near-field studio use. It's fine for foldback monitors (where it is) but I wouldn't even begin to consider it for the task evan_ccs is suggesting.

Most folks shopping for their first budget near-field monitors are not going to be packing a Macrotech or PLX amp in their rack. They'll be more like I was with a second-hand, sub-$300 PA amp which the manufacturer made with compromises to get it to that price-point in the first place.

It's my impression that most modern budget PA amplifiers don't suffer from the problems I'm pointing out (Crown, QSC, and Mackie seem to have a good handle on their quality) but the blowout manufacturers (like Behringer and Nady -which Sweetwater DOES NOT carry) still do.

Thanks for pointing out my errors, DAS, I will remove them from my post.

JP

[DAS]

All good. I didn't really mean for you to edit your post. I thought it was valid enough. I just didn't want to see us get too far out into the weeds on some of the points you were making (I've been involved in forums long enough to see otherwise good discussions get derailed). This often happens when broad generalizations are made. Your second post clarifies your points better.

[Byll]

Interesting posts. I use original passive Tannoy Reveals as one of my two monitor systems. They are driven by an Alesis RA300. We also use a Tannoy TS10 sub. I used the Reveals for a number of years before we added the TS10. They did very well on their own...

I agree with JP, in that our mixes translate very well in the real world. I may be in the minority, but I prefer the original Reveals to the current crop. I understand all of the theoretical and practical advantages of having a frequency response far beyond that of human hearing, but the sound of the originals is simply more easy for me to live with for extended mixing sessions.
For what it is worth, our other monitoring system is made up of Tannoy System 600's - also driven by an RA300.

Best to all.
Byll

[funkyarddog]

For what it's worth, I would check out the Yamaha H55om. They're about $400 a pair. I have been running in to these lately in a few pro environments! Obviously these weren't the primaries. They were being use to A/B against the mains. They are flat---very, very flat! I was so impressed that I plan on getting a pair to A/B against my JBL LSR 4238's. From a price standpoint the Yams will be totally out-classed, but I really feel they translate incredibly well to the real world.

All good engineers will agree on one thing; you do not want your monitors to sound good, only accurate.

In the mix, studio monitors are your best friend. Only a true friend will tell you truth---no matter how much it hurts.

[evan_ccs]

You have all been very helpful, and I appreciate that. JP, was exactly right about my PA amp, ha. I have a complete crap off-brand amp, but for my current purposes (band practice) it makes the cut. I also plan on upgrading once I need to play shows or once we start recording. I have been playing (guitar and keys) for years, but I finally have a band now, so all this takes money (and therefore time).

Thanks to all of you. I will try and find a pair of both the abovementioned monitors and hear them. One thing I do know about is sound quality and accuracy, so I think I should be able to pick the one that's best for my control room. Thanks again to all of you.