How to record a band simultaneously

[StackedSax]

Heya guys, wonder if anyone could shed any light on some of my questions:

I want to record my band in the studio playing live. It's a large band: a 10-piece funk band, with 5 horns, drums, organ, bass, guitar and lead vocals.

I'd really like capture the chemistry of the band, and feel that's only possible by playing together live. I was envisioning the type of recording setup that was used in Stanton Moore's debut album "All Kooked Out!" They essentially had everyone playing together in a room, but separated by Plexiglass barriers. Hopefully this will allow for some reasonable amount of isolation on the mics, but still give the players the feeling of playing live.

The question is mainly on the equipment necessary to capture such a moment.

With this many mics:
5 horn mics
1 guitar mic/input
1 bass mic/input
1 organ mic/input
1 lead vocal mic
3 backup vocal mics
and drums might take 6-8 mics..

So let's say a maximum of 20 inputs. Minimum might be 15 if we didn't use the backup vocal mics and took a few off the drums.

If I want to record all at once, what sort of DAW hardware do y'all recommend? Particularly, I need to know:

1) What sort of hard-drive bandwidth will that many inputs require? Will 7200rpm IDE drives be enough?
2) What sort of breakout box and/or sound card will support that many inputs? I've seen MOTU has a 24 input box, but it seems to have a maximum recording quality of 24 bit at 48kHz. I am under the impression that I might want to get at least 96kHz in order to play with the sound in greater detail.

The recording technique of not having complete isolation may be questionable to some (or many), but the real question here is about the equipment that I need should I decide to try it this way..

So those are my initial questions, more may follow.. Thanks to anyone who can lend some insight...

-StackedSax

[BradLyons]

Great post... I will get to this Saturday night when I have further time to respond.

[shaneperc]

Stacked,
I got out my handy calculator to figure this one out. With 20 tracks recording at 96khz/24bit, that's a sustained throughput of 5.76 MBytes per second (just to give you an idea). That easily fits under ATA 100 or 66, but since those (100/66) are burst peaks, it's not a good indication of drive performance for audio. (Sorry, I'm sure you already knew that:))

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like this is a case where simultaneous tracks are an advantage to overdubbing. Wouldn't it be easier for the write head to keep up since the tracks are written to disc in a consecutive manner? On the other hand, once you start editing, and pieces of tracks get scattered all over the disc, your harddrive might burst into flames trying to keep up.

Good luck!

[BradLyons]

This really is no different than recording on location to an extent. Let me start by asking this, what are you using right now? You may want some isolation, but total isolation isn't exactly needed. Again, it's about the live feel and not only the feel, but the way the sound blends together.

[levon]

hi stackedsax,i realy dont know if you want to record a live band with a daw for now.i love daw work ,but for recording a live band i would go with the HD recorders like alesis 24 track or mackie or tascam with a mixer.
its kind of risky to gamble with a coputer yet i woud say for live recording ,because with live recording you have only one chance and you want to make sure its recorded with no hassles.i think those hd recorders are graet for live locations,and after recording done you can always transfer or even mix or edit on a computer.at least u have the original on the hd recorder.i am sure there are a lot of other options but this comes to mind for live recording.btw the alesis is $2000 for 24 tracks not bad.
now this an idea so its not a rule of thumb,i would do this if i was live recording with a mixer ofcourse.
when it comes to live and studio recording they are different animals pe say.in studio you have all the chances but live you have only one.

[Ted]

So let's say a maximum of 20 inputs. Minimum might be 15 if we didn't use the backup vocal mics and took a few off the drums.

If I want to record all at once, what sort of DAW hardware do y'all recommend? Particularly, I need to know:

1) What sort of hard-drive bandwidth will that many inputs require? Will 7200rpm IDE drives be enough?
2) What sort of breakout box and/or sound card will support that many inputs? I've seen MOTU has a 24 input box, but it seems to have a maximum recording quality of 24 bit at 48kHz. I am under the impression that I might want to get at least 96kHz in order to play with the sound in greater detail.

The recording technique of not having complete isolation may be questionable to some (or many), but the real question here is about the equipment that I need should I decide to try it this way..

So those are my initial questions, more may follow.. Thanks to anyone who can lend some insight...

-StackedSax [/B]

First off, I wouldn't necessarily recommend recording at 96kHz in your situation. The difference between 44.1 and 96 is very subtle (unlike the difference between 16 and 24 bits), and in your case I think the increased cost would not be justified by a sonic difference that nobody would probably hear. If you did want to go that way, though, I'd look at either a pair of MOTU's 1296's or three of their 896's. These would both be good choices even if you were only recording at 44.1; the 1296 especially has phenomenal converters. It's also the most expensive. The 896 has the advantage of having preamps built into each channel, which is nice. I would trust 7200 RPM drives if you were going at 44.1 (or 48), but I'd only trust them at 96 (or 88.2...if you really want to go at a higher sampling rate, I'd recommend 88.2 if the stuff will eventually wind up on CD) if you're doing twelve tracks or less...maybe up to sixteen, but that's where it gets a little scary.

I do think that this will be a great way to record...nothing like capturing the live vibe of a good band. I'd also agree that separation, rather than isolation, should be what you go for here; rather than trying to kill all the bleed, just try to make it sound as good as possible. You want to be able to adjust the relative levels of the different instruments, and you don't need total isolation to do that.

The hardest thing will probably be the vocals, and that's the one thing I'd say you're most likely to replace. What's your setup like? Do you have an iso booth? Mixer?

-Ted

[mydognorm]

I will agree with Ted and his recomendations, but I wanted to offer some additional non gear realted tips. The live vibe thing is a great way to record, but it can be a nightmare when it comes to the mix. If at all possible try to get the horns in a seperate room or even blocked off with baffles or heavy curtains. This will give you a little more seperation, and alot more control during the mix. Another tip would be to go direct with the bass to the DAW or board and do the same with the guitar (pod). After tracking the drums and the other rythm insturments, you can overdub the guitars, bass, horns, and vocals. Since it is a funk band, timing is critical and I would encourge the drummer to record to a click. Easier said than done, but it will help out tremdously when it comes to the mix.

[Treeline]

Just curious...

How would this work with an AKAI DSP24 at 88.2? Seems everything should be there. What would be the best way to set it up?