What Are the Top 5 Mic Pres?? [Archive]

Roland

05-25-2002, 04:13 PM

I have the following gear and am looking to expand my sonic pallette with some more very high quality mic pre's and possibly mics:

Manley Vox Box
dbx 160S Blue Series Compressor
Summit DCL 200A Compressor
Neumann U-87 and M149 mics
BLUE Mouse mic
Shure KSM-44 mic

What mic pres or additional mics would you recommend for vocals? Is there anything else that would give some really good vocal sounds?

I've been looking at getting the following three pre-amps, but I'd really like some more feedback from pros who know:

Universal 2610
Neve 1272
Dbx 768

Any help would be much appreciated as I plan to make the purchases in the next two weeks.

Thanks,
Roland

michaelhoddy

05-25-2002, 06:51 PM

What kinds of vocal sounds are you going for that you are right now not getting with the Manley? What deficiencies are you noticing in your current signal chain?

Roland

05-25-2002, 07:48 PM

I'm actually very happy with the Manley, but I just have heard that the "secret weapons" of many of the pop and hip/hop producers for vocal recording are all these wonderful and different sonically colored mic pres. So, I wanted to add some of these different colors to my vocal tracks to achieve some different sounds and develop my own secret weapons. Thanks, Roland

David Klausner

05-27-2002, 09:30 AM

I always look at different mics, pre's and compressors as the colors in my palette, and mix and match them to get the particular tones I am looking for. If I could only have one pre, the Vox Box would be pretty high on my list, but variety can often be quite useful.

As for the pre's you mentioned, I find the 2610 to be a very warm sounding pre, with a lot of harmonic content. It has a sort of 3 dimensional, "larger than life" quality to it - great when you want to add some girth to your tone. The 1272's (and the very well done modern re-issues, like the Vintech and Chandler) also have a lot of harmonic content, but in an "edgier" sort of way. I love them on distorted electric guitars, and they are also good on vocals (especially male), but the track you put them in has to be a little dense to keep them from sounding harsh (a dense track seems to soak up the edginess a bit). The 786 is a much more clear, open, transparent sounding pre. It is a great choice when you want more detail, and are not looking to color the sound too much.

As the saying goes, talking about music is like dancing about architecture, and trying to describe the sound of a pre in a sentence or two doesn't do it justice, but hopefully it will give you a little information about the general sound you can expect.

michaelhoddy

05-27-2002, 09:41 AM

From the sound of it, you are looking for more "color" from your signal chain. As David mentioned, both the UA 2610 and the 1272 (and it's knock-offs) will help you achieve that, albeit in different ways.

The Manley is a fairly clean, yet warm-sounding preamp. It does not color the sound too much.

What would I do in your situation? Given the fact that you already have a very good tube pre, I'd look at getting a contrasting solid-state preamp. You really can't go wrong with a 1272, Averill/Neve, Vintech, or otherwise. It won't be a color you use everywhere, but you'll find lots of use for it. Another preamp that I love and that engineers are consistently raving about now is the Great River MP2-NV. It is loosely based on the Neve 1073 circuit, but has the ability to vary the amount of "drive" in the circuit front-end, and hence, the amount of coloration. And it is quieter than the original Neve circuits. Definitely a home-run preamp.

Others? The single-channel Daking 52270 is a great sound for drums, guitars, and some vocals. It's based on the old Trident A-range. Besides a good pre, it has a great EQ circuit. You might also want to look at API, although I'd get something with the Neve "sound" first.

Roland

05-27-2002, 10:19 PM

Thanks guys, the Great River sounds pretty interesting. You're right, I'm looking more for new colors than just the clean transparency of a dbx 768. I've heard some good things about a Pendulum pre as well. I'm probably going to add two or three of these here in the next week or two, so Great River looks like a for sure. The 2610 is looking pretty good too, which would leave me deciding between a Pendulum and maybe the 1272. I appreciate your insights in helping me to make this decision.

Thanks again,
Roland

BrandonNothing

05-28-2002, 10:39 AM

Check out API's as well. In fact check out Brent Averill API mic pres, he has some 2 channels that are well priced. They are very colorful pre's. Very punchy. They sound really great. API makes modules that you can get racks for, or you can get a 4 channel that make. Brent Averill makes 2 channel racks made from vintage API consoles. Either way you can't go wrong. Averill also has racks for vintage Neve pres.

Roland

05-28-2002, 08:43 PM

Okay, after much research and discussion I've decided on the following:

dbx Blue 786 Mic Pre w/digital
Groove Tubes Viper Mic Pre
Crane Song Flamingo Dual Mic Pre
Summit Audio TPA-200 Dual Mic Pre
Brauner VM1 KHE Microphone
Soundeluxe Elux 251 Microphone

Time to go shopping!!! :D

Ed Belknap

06-22-2002, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by Roland
Is there anything else that would give some really good vocal sounds?

A really good singer

Roland

06-26-2002, 06:10 PM

Originally posted by Ed Belknap

A really good singer

:D

EjbsMusicRoom

07-24-2002, 05:26 PM

I know I`m way late in this discussion but I`m surprised no one mentioned the AVALON 737s.

That is one serious tool. Anyway... I would love to hear what you have to say about the new GREAT RIVER PRE. I`m looking to get that unit. Please email me with your feedback @ ERNEST828@aol.com

Thanks,
Ernest

BTW- My list for TOP 5 pres:

MARTECH (The most open pre I ever heard)
AVALON M5
AVALON 737 (Super Tool)
GREAT RIVERS
APHEX 107 (Cheap and sounds great)

Pete

08-06-2002, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by Roland
Okay, after much research and discussion I've decided on the following:

dbx Blue 786 Mic Pre w/digital
Groove Tubes Viper Mic Pre
Crane Song Flamingo Dual Mic Pre
Summit Audio TPA-200 Dual Mic Pre
Brauner VM1 KHE Microphone
Soundeluxe Elux 251 Microphone

Time to go shopping!!! :D

What an Awsome list!!!! I wanna go shopping with you:D I would love to have the cheese to pull off a list like that!!!!!

Milo

08-18-2002, 03:22 PM

if i had the money for roland's list.. i'd be quite a happy man.

jon_mc

12-08-2002, 11:50 PM

Check out the Focusrite ISA 220..... has a transparent EQ/Comp/Limit/De-Ess and IMO from an A/B test, it makes the 737 sound weak.

Jon

michaelhoddy

12-09-2002, 07:30 PM

And, since it's solid-state, it's also a completely different topology than the 737. It shouldn't sound similar. And there's apps in which the 220 would sound harsh or too up-front as a result. Still, an interesting alternative. What sources and mics did you A/B with?

There's only a few things I use my pair of 737's on. But those few things the Avalons do very well.

jon_mc

12-09-2002, 10:34 PM

Michael,
A male vocal track using TLM 103 into O2RV2 listening to Genelec 1030's. (Since this is my application) Listened to the ISA, Vintech X73, Univ 2-610, and the 737. The ISA really held its own, very transparent. The comp blend is just plain smart. I wouldn't call it a top 5 mic pre, but as a channel strip its a useful piece of equipment.

xstatic

12-10-2002, 10:26 AM

That explains some of what Jon meant michael. Yes the Focusrite should sound a little more transparent. However, the rest of the mic pres are not bought to be transparent. They are bought because of how they change and color the sounds that are input to them. If you are looking at neutral, check out Earthworks. They seem to have mastered accuracy. Plus, once again, every source signal has its golden mic and pre. While I am not a huge fan of the Avalon 737 (I just think they are a little overpriced), every one I have talked to tells me the Avalon 737 is a whole new unit when paired up with a TLM103. Plus, Jon is monitoring through Genelecs, which are known to be fairly colored (assuming he is using1031 series and lower).

michaelhoddy

12-10-2002, 10:40 AM

I'll have to go give an ISA220 a listen. I kinda stopped paying too much attention to Focusrite after listening to the Red 1, which I thought sounded okay, but not commensurate with its price.

I use my 737's almost exclusively for vocals and bass DI. I also like using the EQ as an insert or stereo buss EQ. For vocals, I have found the combination of a Neumann U87 (a relative of the 103) and the 737 to be magic on certain voices and tracks. I also like several of the Audio-Technica 40-series LD condensers with it. And it does make a great bass DI. But that's about all I use them for.

My two favorite "do everything" pres are the Buzz Audio MA2.2 and the Great River MP2-NV at the moment. Hard to find anything that at least one of them doesn't do well on.

conguero

01-11-2004, 09:34 PM

for my money you should find vintage mods live telefunken v72 or v672 and have them customed racked. the v 672 was tested against the 1272 and the v672 had a richer bottom and more musical highs.

michaelhoddy

01-11-2004, 10:41 PM

I'll have to chime back in after a year for my current top 5:

1. Great River MP-2NV
2. Buzz Audio MA2.2
3. Manley tube preamp
4. Daking 52270
5. API

reignstorm

01-11-2004, 11:49 PM

I'll jump on this too:...this is my list this month....the bottom two change monthly...lol

1) DW Fearn
2) Great River MP-2NV
3) Groove Tubes Vipre
4) Avalon M5
5) Phoenix Audio DRS-2

oooh...can we vote on compressors???

michaelhoddy

01-12-2004, 09:09 AM

Sure.

1. Distressor
2. Distressor
3. Manley Vari-Mu
4. LA-2A
5. Distressor

There's some others as well. But one can never have too many Distressors.

reignstorm

01-12-2004, 10:44 AM

Yeah the distressor tops my list too...althought the ear 660 is pretty amazing sounding.

1-distressor
2-distressor
3-ear 660
4-dbx 160VU
5-chandler LTD-2

michaelhoddy

01-12-2004, 11:08 AM

Funny, I was going to mention the 160, as it's pretty unglamorous, but very useful.

What do you use the Chandler for? It's been catching my eye recently.

djui5

01-12-2004, 01:34 PM

Top 5 pre's
1-API 212L
2-Millenia SST-1
3-Avalon 737
4-UA 610
5-Amek 9098i onboard pre's

Compressors
1-GML 8900
2-Distressor
3-UA 1176
4-DBX160
5-Millenia TCL-2

If I had my choice...these are what I would carry around.

reignstorm

01-12-2004, 03:25 PM

Michael,
Yeah I love the 160....i still haven't used any of the new ones (without the VU)...are they pretty much the same thing??

The Chandler is similar to a Neve 2254.... very thick sounding. Works very well on many things..in particular bass guitar and kick drum. Chandler is a decent company...their "beatles era" pre is pretty nice too...haven't heard that compressor yet though.

djui5,
The pre's in the 9098i console are incredible...i wish i got a chance to work on them more often.

TomM

01-26-2004, 12:04 PM

D.W. Fearn is one of my top choices with vocals for pre!

djui5

01-26-2004, 03:25 PM

me too..the whole 9098i is incredible. I love everything about that board...from the colors to the feel and the transparency, the EQ's are incredible to say the least..it's defeniatly my favorite board...I'm gonna find a studio that has one so I can work on it. I know there's one in LA and if I move out there this year then I'm gonna see if I can get my foot in that place. The school I went to has three of them...but it's a school..not a studio. I know there's one in Nashville too. Anyways..I'm rambling again

marc777

01-27-2004, 05:16 AM

I am new to forum discussions!

This topic creates my interest.

What do you audio gurus think of the Focusrite Red 7?

Is this a good choice as a vocal pre-amp using say a Neumann M-147?

Does it have a very natural sound with lots of presence?

As you may have guessed. This is the unit I am interest in?

What are you thoughts and comments!

michaelhoddy

01-27-2004, 08:40 AM

I don't think the Red 1 is a horrible preamp, but I do think it's overpriced for what it does (or doesn't do). Focusrite's own 428 is a much better deal, and I can readily name at least 10 other preamps I'd choose first.

I'm not thrilled that a preamp billed as a "Class A" device has nondiscrete componentry in the signal path in the output stage. Seems a little deceiving. The build quality is also somewhat spotty.

The sound? Sort of nondescript. Not "straight-wire" by any means, but not overly colored like a Neve module might be. Definitely a little warm, not really fat. It's sort of in the middle of everything, though not necessarily in a totally compelling sense. Certainly not bad by any stretch, but not worth $2500 US.

If you like the Focusrite sound, go for the 428. That REALLY is a great deal, as there's nothing 4-channel in that price range of similar quality.

marc777

01-28-2004, 02:39 AM

Michael Hoddy,

Just to clarify the Focusrite Unit you are referring to.

Is it a Red 1 or Red 7 you are evaluating in your last post!

Marc777

michaelhoddy

01-28-2004, 11:50 AM

I was referring to the Red 1 as a basis of comparison to the Focusrite 428, since they are both 4-channel units. The Red 7 has the same preamp circuit as the Red 1, except it is a 2-channel unit, and since it's around the same price point as the 428, I'd still get the 428.

marc777

01-29-2004, 06:50 AM

Michael Hoddy,

The Focusrite Red 7 is a single channel unit with the red series preamp, a compressor, desser and exciter.

This beast might be different to what you expect from the other red series focusrite units.

To all the rest of the group,

From its specifications and the people who use this unit from the upper crust of the music recording industry, swear by this unit. I thought this unit would be outstanding in nature! I am totally surprised that none of you in this forum have chosen this unit as one of your top five preamps!

I came to this forum and was suitably impressed by the insight and depth of knowledge you people deliver in these forums at sweetwater (Including you, Michael Hoddy). Refreshing to say the least.

Is there any other person within this forum have any comments regarding the Focusrite Red 7!

P.S. Desperately need answers as I will be spending the cash very soon!

marc777

01-29-2004, 07:15 AM

Me Again!

My mind is opened and willing for change!

If you can present a logic and compelling argument I will reevaluate my present decision.

I have not heard the unit in the flesh, but have heard completed productions with this unit and respect the producers that swear by the Focusrite Red 7!

Types of Vocal Sounds:

1. A crystal clear delicate reproductions of an alto female lead vocalist. She has a huge dyamic range.

2. High Male Lead Vocals. e.g. Toto, Foreigner and Michael MacDonald.

3. Loved the sound Prince produced with his vocals. e.g. Pearls & Lace

Old sound! But hey, this is what I do best!

Ready for your invaluable input!

michaelhoddy

01-29-2004, 08:24 AM

Oops, my bad. I mixed up the Red 7 with the Red 8 (which IS the dual mic preamp). If you're sold on the Focusrite sound, at least have a look at the ISA220, which offers much the same features and quality as the Red 7 for what should be a lower price. At least it is here in the US. I don't think the Red range is crap, but I do think it is overpriced.

The Focusrite will not stand in the way of you achieving the kind of vocal sound you're after. You will, however, have to pick the right microphone.

My first choice would be a Telefunken ELA M251 or one of the newer reproductions (such as the Korby, Lawson, or Soundelux). My second choice would be the Neumann M149. These are all pretty expensive mics. My inexpensive choices would be the AKG C414 TLII, possibly the AT 4050, and definitely the AT 4033.

The 4033 is a deceiving little mic, being inexpensive and all, but it's a monster.

You should really check out the 3D Audio mic CD, available from 3D Audio (http://www.3daudioinc.com) directly (Lynn will ship all over the world), or here at Sweetwater. This will be money well-spent in choosing the right mic. Take this the right way, but you probably need to dial in your tastes a bit if you're after this kind of sound. The M147 you mention elsewhere, for instance, is just about exactly the wrong mic to start with if you're after the kind of sound you say you are.

reignstorm

02-04-2004, 12:47 AM

I own the red 7, do you want to buy mine?

Its a good piece, but the new price is just too much for what it is. I'm sure people swear by it, but that doesn't really mean anything in my mind. I was in a studio with a guy that swore by using some old sony mic on kick drums...he said, every million dollar record he did used that. SO...i politely set up my Soundelux iFet7 on the outside of the (it was a really nice maple DW kick also)...and he said he had never gotten such a good kick sound in his life...

But anyway, yeah the red 7 is cool...but i'm looking to sell mine cause i dont use it that much. The only thing it ever gets used on is vox..and thats not all the time, i have others that beat it out often.

marc777

02-04-2004, 06:27 AM

I'm interested!

How old?

Is it in immaculate condition? I mean with not a scratch on it. I am very fussy in this area.

Does it have a switch on the back of this unit so it can be converted to either 110v or 240v for our Australian conditions?

For your interest. This unit is going to be used for our next new Praise & Worship Album. We have nearly finished the Praise & Worship album targeted for the youth. And I will be producing a second album for a more mature audience in mind, as soon as I have purchased all the equipment that is required.

Eagerly await your reply,

Marc777

reignstorm

02-04-2004, 09:32 PM

Marc,
The focusrite isn't new. I bought it as a demo store unit. The store had a security lock that chewed up one of the rack ears. I'll sell it for $1000 plus shipping if you want it.

Thats great that you are into worship music. I play in a worship band that tours the east coast of the US doing youth retreats, conventions and camps. We are in the process of recording an album as well. Good luck. Like I said, if you want the red 7, its yours. Sounds perfect, just the chewed up ear and one of the knobs crackles when you turn it...but since you aren't turning it in the middle of a take...it doesn't matter.

Let me know. - darren@reign-storm.com
Darren

reignstorm

02-04-2004, 09:33 PM