Digi 002R Mod from Black Lion Audio?

[Shakabrah]

http://www.blacklionaudio.com/digi002_mod.html

Anyone do this? Heard the b4 and after samples, sounded great. Of course, maybe I should wait for the NAMM show, rumoured 003 will be there...

[Smithcok]

It does indeed make a big difference.

However, about the 003. I've always heard that its the people on the outside that are hoping for an 003, but the people (digidesign, designers etc) that make the products have never actually said anything about an 003.

I wouldnt get your hopes up until it actually comes out.

[Shakabrah]

It does indeed make a big difference.

However, about the 003. I've always heard that its the people on the outside that are hoping for an 003, but the people (digidesign, designers etc) that make the products have never actually said anything about an 003.

I wouldnt get your hopes up until it actually comes out.

No company ever leaks out info about new products. If the buying public got wind of a new 003, sales of the 002 would plummet, prompting a reduction in the sales price. We will know soon at NAMM.

[Tarktones]

The 003 has been rumored for years. I honestly think the 002R Black Lion mod is worth it.

[dpd]

The guys at Black Lion told me they are looking at an improvement to their 002R mod - to work on the power supply (more than likely for the analog stages). If you are in the market for this mod, you may want to wait a bit and see if they really do announce this sometime.

[JeffBarnett]

For as long as there has been a Digi002, there have been rumors of a Digi003. (And why not - 3 is the number after 2, right?)

But Digidesign has never announced such a thing, or even hinted at it. Any talk of a Digi003 is pure speculation at this point. Not to say it could never happen, just that I've never heard anybody talk about it with any credibility.

[willem]

The Black Lion mods are for real. I just finished having BLA mod a new Mbox Mini, and, A/B and mod my Apogee Mini-Me USB. I should get them back Friday. I had been doing most of my stuff in Live via the Mini-Me, but am transitioning to LE in order to use Strike. Other folks I talk to with the 002r mods are in love with them. And from what I'm told by those who've heard them, new p/s upgrades definitely kick the 002r up another notch above the original mod. Chances are a 002r with full BLA mod will be the rig to beat for some time into the future.

Friends in the retail world are telling me 002 inventory is drying up; but not so much the 002r. I can't say what this means, if anything. Could just be they're discontinuing the original 002.

Still, I look for Digi to pop something big at NAMM next week. Apogee's double-whammy of Ensemble and Symphony isn't likely to go unanswered. Digi's marketing model took it in the gut. They have positioned well in the low and high end markets. What advantage they had in the middle is badly compromised. An LE+ with dedicated hardware would put a big thumb in that dyke. Hard to tell how they'll productize their competitive response. One things for sure, it's unlikely Digidesign can ignore Apogee and do nothing new to directly counter the Ensemble and Symphony products.

[JeffBarnett]

We'll have to wait and see. They certainly haven't said anything about new LE products yet.

Not to throw more fuel on the fire, but have you seen this (http://www.sweetwater.com/digi002flto/)?

[dpd]

^^^ Plugin bundles won't put the sonics of Digi's hardware in the Apogee category.

[JeffBarnett]

Certainly not. Who said anything about plugins?

[Audioholic]

Does the Mod's put the 002 our of Warranty? Usually it will disqualify any warranty from the manufacture I would believe. Not that I am worried about it, just a thought and a question.

[willem]

Yep. I can't imagine why Digi would want to warranty a modded box. But then again, a well-modded box would replace most of what mattered. And wouldn't you want the mod jocks to do the fix? I would.

[Audioholic]

Sure,

As long as Black Lion garuantees thier work, which I am sure they do. The 002 has had issues with a bad power harness, and has been needed to get fixed. I would just hate to see a new 002 user not get the proper support, or even from someone who sells them, like sweetwater. If its modded, I am sure there would be some issues if the unit failed in any capacity. But I am sure the mods are well worth it, though I completely bypass all of the analog stages anyway. I may look into it more myself, just for kicks.

[JeffBarnett]

I'm pretty sure that modifying a Digi002 would void the Digidesign warranty. And even if Black Lion warrantees their work, I doubt they would warranty any parts of the 002 that they didn't modify.

However, if you purchase your 002 from Sweetwater you will still get technical support from us (not the same thing as warranty repair) for as long as you own it. We'll refer you to Black Lion for tech support questions that deal specifically with their mod, but we'll still help you out with Digi002 / Pro Tools issues.

[dpd]

Certainly not. Who said anything about plugins?

Jeff - peace. The link just showed a stock 002 with a bunch of plugins.

You know, if Digi really wanted to have some fun, they would go the route of Mercedes with AMG - officially endorse 'hot-rodded' versions of their hardware products with full warranties (and the higher price tag.) Or, just make a high-end version of their boxes.

[Ted]

Jeff - peace. The link just showed a stock 002 with a bunch of plugins.
The link showed the 002 Factory (which is indeed the stock 002 with a bunch of plugins, which is the only way they've sold it for the past year or so) at a significantly reduced price, and the price was the reason Jeff posted the link. However, the link doesn't work any more because we've run out, and Digidesign tells us that we won't get any more in until March at the earliest, which is why it has been temporarily pulled from the website.

-Ted

[Tarktones]

Well I'm putting my money where my mouth is on this one. I've already made my down payment and my unit is scheduled for modification next week. I'll be excited to share my results.

[petessound]

believe it people its coming soon!

1. check out the digidesign website, they're giving away old 002Rs with HD upgrades!

2. go to there site map and you'll see links to a 003 and 003R next to the 002R, the links dont go anywhere but...

[Tarktones]

I didn't see anything like that there. In fact, I even searched the source code for the site map page and "003" does not appear anywhere in there. Am I looking in the wrong spot here?

[Ted]

No, the references are gone...but they didn't lead anywhere, as has already been mentioned...and the free 002R promotion has been going since late last year...

[evan_ccs]

The links in the site map don't mean anything anyway. Anytime a company has a history of sequels/expansions etc. to a product, they usually reserve websites and develop their software/websites to support pages for future releases.

For instance, Rockstar Games who makes the Grand theft Auto Series has had the rights to web pages and other stuff under the name Grand Theft Auto IV for years--since before GTAIII, even.

Albums may get leaked easily, but when it comes to companies like Digidesign, there won't be any telling information about future developments in the view of the general public.

[Ted]

It's "official" now...information on the Digi 003 family is up on Digidesign's (http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?langid=100&navid=48&itemid=24691&ref=003A-US) website as well as ours (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/search.php?s=digi003&tt=1&go=Go%21).

-Ted

[Tarktones]

Good timing. Got my 002 back from Black Lion last week. I'll be putting it through its paces over the weekend.

[shizloc]

Well fella i think its true...here is a link to the 003




http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Digi003R/




Carlos Herrera CEO/Producer
Funky Touch Production L.L.C.
http://www.myspace.com/shizloc
http://www.myspace.com/funkytouchproduction
www.FunkyTouchProduction.com

[Tarktones]

Okay, so not only have I now had a chance to do some recording and mixing with the modded 002R, but I've also had the opportunity to A/B it against an un-modded 002R in a simple, nerdy test.

The difference was jaw-dropping! I was absolutely floored by the difference in quality between the two. Basics of the session:

Rates - 96k/24bit
Clock - Internal
Mic Pres:
-Onboard modded 002R
-Onboard stock 002R
-UA 2108 solid state 2-ch pre into stock 002R line input
Mic - MXL V67G
Source - Larivee acoustic guitar played by me

I played the same thing through the onboard preamp of the unmodded 002R, the UA 2108 into a line input on the unmodded 002R, and into the onboard preamp of the modified 002R.

The difference between modded and stock? It's like someone took the blanket off the microphone. The clarity was astounding. I honestly was not expecting the difference to be this drastic, but it really was. The mud was gone from the audio. There was a substantial increase in presence and accuracy across the board.

The difference between the 2108 into the stock 002R and the onboard pre of the modded 002R was not quite as drastic. The winner was definitely the modded 002, but this may also be a matter of opinion. The 2108 seemed to be darker and took some gentle EQ'ing to pull up the low end around 60-80 Hz and to boost the midrange from about 1k-3k to make it sound really close to the BLA mod. The difference was akin to listening through a 6 foot tube (2108) and listening directly in the room with the source (BLA mod).

Stock 002= Like having a blanket on the mic
UA 2108= Like listening through a tube

I was EXTREMELY impressed with the performance of the BLA 002 and I feel MUCH better about having spent my money upgrading my existing unit instead of investing more on something new.

These guys are pros and really deliver. THIS MOD IS WORTH EVERY PENNY AND MUCH MUCH MORE.

[dpd]

^^^ Modding equipment rules! thanks for the post and, for those of you who haven't read other similar reviews elsewhere, what Tarktones posted is totally consistent with reviews of 002R BLA mods I have read.

Makes me want to get out the soldering iron and dig into my box of parts - I have a couple of amplifiers that need some updates.

Enjoy it! :thumbsup:

[Rad]

Very interesting! So you say Black Lion only replaces the analog stages? In this case, this proves that in this digital age many of us may be forgetting the simple fact that before it gets digitized, ANY wave is analog...

I'm curious how the modded 002 compares soundwise to the Onyx, which is supposed to have good analog circuitry to start with. I suspect the results should be similar, give or take some small eq'ing?
What puzzles me more is your results with the UA. Is it an uncolored pre? (because I'm not familiar with this particular model).

Anyway, thanks for the update. This is extremely valuable info.

[Tarktones]

I'm curious how the modded 002 compares soundwise to the Onyx, which is supposed to have good analog circuitry to start with. I suspect the results should be similar, give or take some small eq'ing?
What puzzles me more is your results with the UA. Is it an uncolored pre? (because I'm not familiar with this particular model).

*looks at Onyx 800R* Well I suppose I'll have to conduct another comparison on my next session.

The 2108 doesn't appear to be something one would use as a tone-machine, but I don't really know too much about it. The manual is available on UA's website though.

The UA preamp itself is for sale (http://garone.net/anthony/archive/imagegallery/ua2108) if anyone is interested.

But I absolutely cannot say enough about how pleased I am with the new 002.

[StripedByNine]

I have already scheduled my 002Rack to go in. They have my down payment and I have to have the unit there for April 25. I have read the testimonials and "I Believe". My question is, I also have a Voiceworks outboard processor. If I use the mic pre in the Voiceworks, am I defeating the whole purpose of the upgrade? Should I also look into a new pre? Thanks folks.

Chris

[bluesna]

I have a Digi 002R with the basic Black Lion mod, A/D > clock > pres > signal Path. (their original mod .. I guess)
I, as many on a budget try to find ways to compete sonically with the Real Class A Studio gear. I do agree to an extent that the mod does help some. I believe the clock and the analog path upgrade. I'm not crazy about my pres. Funny, but on my search to upgrade on a budget, I came across an 80's desk, Soundtracs Topaz 24 which was a home studio console in about the $4000.00 range. The original owner pretty much gave it to me. I spoke with a tech who worked at API and also a tech in London regarding the console before purchasing. I was told the pres we're very good as I inquired as to upgrades. I was told leave them alone and add outboard.
I have my system set up to monitor through my Digi 002R BLA or the console.
I have to say, the console makes such a difference. Everything separates and is much more real and musical. Much less harsh from all the digital guys pushing mids. I also use to have the Apogee Rosetta 200. I also have Summit Audio pres / comps. I have to say at this point that I would go back to Apogee, or should say that I plan to possibly go back to Apogee, maybe Lucid. My results with my past work are so much sonically better with the Apogee Rosetta 200. I would rather have spent the money there than BLA.
But then we all have our opinions and preferences. originally, I thought the same way about the blanket thing with the BLA mod. It does help and is certainly better than the stock 002. The same old lesson learnt again, you get what you pay for !!! There are no cheap gear miracles as all these budget Class A advertisements (pres, mics,etc) claim. Do your gear homework and don't trust the boards to make your equipment decisions ! if you need opinions, go to a working studio/s and talk with a few engineers.

I am not an in the box guy, lovin' having a console again, and hopefully my Topaz well turn into a Trident in the near future ..... as well as a new system !
Good Luck !

[nsstudios]

Okay, so not only have I now had a chance to do some recording and mixing with the modded 002R, but I've also had the opportunity to A/B it against an un-modded 002R in a simple, nerdy test.

The difference was jaw-dropping! I was absolutely floored by the difference in quality between the two. Basics of the session:

Rates - 96k/24bit
Clock - Internal
Mic Pres:
-Onboard modded 002R
-Onboard stock 002R
-UA 2108 solid state 2-ch pre into stock 002R line input
Mic - MXL V67G
Source - Larivee acoustic guitar played by me

I played the same thing through the onboard preamp of the unmodded 002R, the UA 2108 into a line input on the unmodded 002R, and into the onboard preamp of the modified 002R.

The difference between modded and stock? It's like someone took the blanket off the microphone. The clarity was astounding. I honestly was not expecting the difference to be this drastic, but it really was. The mud was gone from the audio. There was a substantial increase in presence and accuracy across the board.

The difference between the 2108 into the stock 002R and the onboard pre of the modded 002R was not quite as drastic. The winner was definitely the modded 002, but this may also be a matter of opinion. The 2108 seemed to be darker and took some gentle EQ'ing to pull up the low end around 60-80 Hz and to boost the midrange from about 1k-3k to make it sound really close to the BLA mod. The difference was akin to listening through a 6 foot tube (2108) and listening directly in the room with the source (BLA mod).

Stock 002= Like having a blanket on the mic
UA 2108= Like listening through a tube

I was EXTREMELY impressed with the performance of the BLA 002 and I feel MUCH better about having spent my money upgrading my existing unit instead of investing more on something new.

These guys are pros and really deliver. THIS MOD IS WORTH EVERY PENNY AND MUCH MUCH MORE.

I'm looking into the 002 mod myself. Your satisfaction is pretty convincing, what level of modification did you get from BLA? I'm not sure how far to go with it.

[Tarktones]

My mod was done before they had the different tiers of HD and Tweak Head. So it's just the basic mod.

Last week I let a friend borrow a DigimaxFS and we A/B'd it against his 002R which was also modded and it was a severe difference. I can't recommend BLA's work enough.

[nsstudios]

My mod was done before they had the different tiers of HD and Tweak Head. So it's just the basic mod.

Last week I let a friend borrow a DigimaxFS and we A/B'd it against his 002R which was also modded and it was a severe difference. I can't recommend BLA's work enough.

Oh nice. That's good to hear that even the most basic mod level yields such good results.

Have you heard the Tweak head to be worth it at all? That has the linear power supply?

[chazmuz]

Hey guys, my 002 just got back after a Signature Mod from BLA, and immediately I noticed clarity in the high end frequencies. I haven't run any mics through it yet, as my time was short and I was playing some virtual instruments in a session at 96K, but already I seem to notice greater clarity, and a friend of mine also noticed the greater definition, or "crispness" as he stated. Will post on the pre's & conversion quality after a few takes later on.

[Rad]

Can you share a few more details as you find how the modded unit sounds? I'm very curious what a mod can do.:bunny:

[chazmuz]

As I've stated, the different tracks just seem to "sit" in the mix. It's sometimes hard to explain, but being able to hear the frequencies properly has a lot to do with a mix. The crisp highs, the full, rounded lows, it really results in a better stereo image, because you can hear the detail that you couldn't before.

I just got a BLA Auteur 2-channel mic preamp in the mail today, so I will probably use it soon with various mics in the studio, even my recently modified Apex 205 ribbon mic by Michael Joly of Oktavamod.

I'm all about saving money and increasing the quality of the studio!