Starting from scratch

[abrophy1975]

Well I am sure this comes up a lot but I'd rather not go searching through these endless forums. Here's my situation:

I am just starting to get my info together on this whole new world of computer based music production and graphic arts. I have spoken with a Mac salesperson (who I by no means consider a professional source) about putting together a computer and programming with the ability to create and produce music. He recommended the G4 series. I understand the differences between the three or four in the series are within the speed and memory. The sales guy was only able to help me with the music end of it. He told me to go with Pro Tools though he said Logic was comparable. He also mentioned MOTU and Sound Foundry. He then quoted me $4000-$5000 to get everything I wanted (graphic arts and music programs). Is this about right or can I do a succesful job with less? I am relatively unfamiliar with Mac, but since I have heard such great things about the product I figured why not try it out. So basically what this all comes down to is what do I need, line for line, to get this whole train started? Graphic arts programs? Music programs? And is it necessary/beneficial to get the Mac over a PC? And if a PC is usable then what brand is the best way to go?

Can I get some help? Thanks
abrophy1975

[Justin]

Give us some more details, this system will probably be individual to you. Do you make music using a midi device? How many tracks of audio do you need to use at once. What type of music gear do you already own. What genre of music to you write/play?

These are the type of questions you'll need to answer before you can begin to put this together.

[abrophy1975]

Well.....I don't play a single instrument (sad I know played the sax as a kid but never grew on me or me on it - trying to pick up the bass guitar now) so I have no midi device. However I am planning to work on a friends music and he has an entire band: guitar, bass, drums, vocals, possibly a keyboard. You'll have to excuse my lack of technical savviness, by tracks I assume you mean number of songs or is that number of components within a song? If it's number of songs then let's just say 20. If it's number of components going into a song then I have no idea where to start, but maybe that will be made up for when I reveal what genre I am interested in. I am looking to create primarily jazz/hip-hop tracks and then a small side of rock. This is something I plan to make a career out of someday so price isn't necessarily a question but let's pretend that it is (I have to be realistic right?) but if it's high-end you know about then so be it.

Thanks

[emranrao]

I think that by tracks he meant the number of instruments playing/recording.

If you are planning on recording a live band and if you think that you can get by recording 8 instruments simultaneously and limited to 24 total number of tracks then I personally would recommend Digidesign's Pro Tools LE (software) & Digi001 interface (hardware). This is argueably one of the best interface available for Audio recording for the price range ($799) and expandibility (you can always upgrade to Pro Tools HD system later). Pro Tools LE had limited (as compared to Logic, Digital Performer 3,Cubase VST32) midi capabilities. It is very stable on a Mac platform and yes, Apple G4 is the way to go. This is a host based system which means that it will reply on the computer's processing power. So, faster the computer better the Pro Tools performance(pro tools doesn't support dual processor Mac G4 yet). The basic system will provide you with enogh plug-ins (software based effects/reverbs/dynamic processing) and tracks to keep you going for a long while. Another comparable choice would be to go with MOTU's 828 / MOTU 896 interface, the advantage of the later is that you don't need a PCI card to connect the interface with the computer just need a firewire port which your new G4 will come with.

If you are planning on doing Midi stuff then look into Emagic Logic, MOTU Digital Performer 3, Cubase VST32 etc.

[abrophy1975]

Since I last posted I have been doing some research on this myriad of products (actually I finally got my Progear catalog and have been drooling eversince!). I was looking into several products and since I have little to no real understanding of what these products do then I though I would just toss them out there and hope that someone can helplme out here.

I was looking at the MOTU DP3 sequencer, what I read left me confused, is something like this a necessary buy? Don't get me wrong, everything this did sounded incredible but the question is is it for me? And if a sequencer is what I need then what makes MOTU different/better than Logic PLatinum/silver/ or Gold? In case you're just tuning in to this forum I am trying to creat beats for jazz based hip-hop as well as experiment with all other music, that would be my focus though.

Anyway on with the list. Also I saw a Studio pack containing Toast 4, Peak, Deck, Effects, and a soundcard - is this necessary? The next thing I checked into were sampler programs and here's what I came out with: Steinberg series, Proppelerheads 2.0, Kurzweil Bass gallery, and Concept FX pros. What is necessary and what is not? Also I was looking at Acid pro but is that only on the PC format or can it be used for MAC? And last but not least there was also the TC Works DSP for native systems. Since it speeds up you MIPS to 400 and takes some pressure off the OS is it owrth the buy even if I am just beginning? I plan on making this a career so I already have long term in mind, so is this a useful tool?

I have an arsenal of questions, so if there is a great book out there that answers all of these questions and more could you please let me know. Or if there is any reading I should be doing in my preparation for this that would be helpful - please send me the title.

On an aside, I just wanted to say how impressed I have been with this site in general but specifically the Forum. Though it has taken a week for my question to be anwered it was done with detail and knowledge - I appreciate this sort of communication. Sweetwater is doing an incredible job!

[pooprobot]

I was looking at the MOTU DP3 sequencer, what I read left me confused, is something like this a necessary buy? Don't get me wrong, everything this did sounded incredible but the question is is it for me? And if a sequencer is what I need then what makes MOTU different/better than Logic PLatinum/silver/ or Gold?

MOTU Digital Performer, Emagic Logic, Steinberg Cubase, Digidesign Digi 001, etc all do the same thing. That is, they have a MIDI sequencer with an audio multitracker. Which one you should get is just personal preference. You can download a free version of Protools from the Digidesign site to see if you like it. I think there is also a Logic Audio free version for download somewhere on Emagic's website. You can test them out, and if you like them, then you can get the full version. I think they limit the amount of tracks and they don't have MIDI, but it sounds like you're not working with MIDI anyways. I personally use MOTU's DP3 and I love it.

Anyway on with the list. Also I saw a Studio pack containing Toast 4, Peak, Deck, Effects, and a soundcard - is this necessary?

You will definitely need an audio interface of some sort, preferrably 24bit. If you're recording a full band, then you will want one with at least 8 simultaneous inputs such as the Echo Layla. Peak is a 2track stereo waveform editor. Deck is a multitrack program much like DP3, Logic, etc, and it also does not have MIDI functions.


The next thing I checked into were sampler programs and here's what I came out with: Steinberg series, Proppelerheads 2.0, Kurzweil Bass gallery, and Concept FX pros. What is necessary and what is not?

If you're simply recording live bands, then none of those programs are necessary. Propellerheads is not a program by the way, it is a company (they make Recycle, Reason, Rebirth). I know the Propellerheads programs are very cool though and you should download their demos to try them out.


Also I was looking at Acid pro but is that only on the PC format or can it be used for MAC?

Acid Pro is PC only, but I run it using Virtual PC5. You need a very fast Mac though. If you do do this, use VP5 with the Windows 2000 operating system. The Windows XP version will slow you down since XP's user interface is more graphic intensive.


And last but not least there was also the TC Works DSP for native systems. Since it speeds up you MIPS to 400 and takes some pressure off the OS is it owrth the buy even if I am just beginning? I plan on making this a career so I already have long term in mind, so is this a useful tool?

That's kind of a pricy option just to run effects. If you buy a fast enough Mac, then you can run all your effects native.

I have an arsenal of questions, so if there is a great book out there that answers all of these questions and more could you please let me know. Or if there is any reading I should be doing in my preparation for this that would be helpful - please send me the title.

I know some good books on recording engineering in general, but as far as computer music goes, just subscribe to Electronic Musician or Sound on Sound. Hope this helps.

[Foreverain4]

do you by any chance already have a pc? if so, i would recomend starting there. rather than dumping thousands of dollars on something that you have no idea how to run. it will be very overwhelming! it is not the equipment that you have, it is knowing how to use what you have. if you have a pc already, all you need is some software and a decent sound card to get you started. you will need at least 256mb of ram, 400mhz processor, and a decent size harddrive (10g or up). for starters, i would strongly recomend sonic foundrys vegas audio. this is probably the easiest, most common sense audio app on the market. this program does not do midi, but you are not doing midi anyway. dont let the fact that it is easy to use make you think that it is not as good as logic, pro tools, nuendo, or any other app. i happen to have logic and nuendo but rarely ever use them, if at all. i always find myself going back to vegas because it is so much easier to do edits and processes. it saves me time and my clients money, which in turn makes me more money because they keep coming back. also, with vegas, if you go ahead and buy vegas video, you get a full audio AND video editing suite. please note that i do not work for sonic foundry.

my 2 cents:)

[pooprobot]

Whoops, I didn't know he a PC already. I was under the impression that he had nothing, hence the title of this post. Yeah I agree, I have never heard anything bad about Sonic Foundry. I have only used Acid, but I hear that Soundforge and Vegas are also very good, and they're PC only.

[abrophy1975]

....I don't have my own computer. I know, I know it's like living in the stone age. I either type from work or from my girlfriends laptop which has about as much speed as the molasses bobsled team. So I am truly starting from scratch. I need to buy everything from the hardrive to the programs. I have absolutely nothing as of yet. So now knowing that, what is the best way to go, Mac or PC? I have now spoken with several people about that choice and so far 1 out of 7 has said that it didn't matter while all the others said "Mac for sure." So where to now? Programs? MIDI (because I would like to use a mic and possibly a guitar or bass, maybe even keyboard)? Burner? Interface? Plug-ins? Do I need more than one hard drive ( I have been told yes)? Speakers? Monitor? In other words I need the whole 9 yards, the long and short, the package, the scoop...I need it all - okay maybe "need" is strong word, perhaps "want" would be more appropriate. I "need" to finally finish paying for those college loans...but that's a whole other story.

Thanks for all your help...everyone.

[pooprobot]

Well, this is a Mac forum, so the answer to that is obvious... get a MAC! But really at this point, both platforms have now reached high processor speeds and both have relatively stable operating systems where either will get the job done so there's really no point in arguing which one is better. The bottom line is that they're both capable, and they'll both crash occasionally, so it comes down to what software you want to run on them. I chose Digital Performer as my main music program, so obviously Mac was my choice.

[hmurchison]

I'm sorta in your same situation. I'm looking at Digidesigns Mbox because it's portable(if I need it to be) and looks really simple. You can't beat $499 either. I just saw a Sweetwater add that show all the apps compatible with the Mbox as well. Anyone have any experiences with the Mbox? I'm a Sax player also and I will be doing Midi but only lightly.