Conflicting programs on the G4?

[pooprobot]

I just ordered a new G4 933mhz desktop Mac. It won't arrive for a few weeks but I'm trying to get prepared for how I will set it up. I'm using Digital Performer 3. I got a Stealth Serial Port so I can still use my old serial MOTU Midi Express XT. I'm planning on still using my Korg1212 audio interface (although I plan on moving to a 24bit interface in the distant future). I will probably run all my programs in "classic" mode, since they are not written for OSX. I also plan to use my Mac with the following non-music programs:

Final Cut Pro 3
Adobe Photoshop 5.0
Adobe Illustrator 9.0
Adobe After Effects
Dreamweaver
Flash

Anyways, I know it's best to keep your system "lean" when working with audio, so I was wondering if anyone can tell me what conflicts I should anticipate running into with the above programs all on the same system

[newness_of_life]

The biggest problem you'll run into are memory leaks in OS 9 (classic) and OSX - both versions of the OS have serious memory leaks - in OS 9, you'll crash your system several times a day just running conventional apps... OS X is slightly more solid, so the application will crash but the operating system will probably stay up. Regardless, both versions of the OS are totally flawed, and both will give you constant problems no matter what programs you're running.

Also, audio professional convention says that you shouldn't use your DAW computer to do anything else but recording, on account of how the non-music-software can conflict w/ the various music-software/hardware.

Frankly, if you're doing Music or Art, the Mac is probably OK (as long as you don't run more than one app at a time, and don't expect too much in the way of useability or features in your OS) - if you're doing anything else with your computer (like using Dreamweaver, Frontpage, or any other web design program), use Windows 2000, Windows XP or any distribution of Linux (you'll save yourself a lot of headaches!).

[TimOBrien]

Obviously newness_of_life knows absolutely nothing about what he is talking about. I have owned both Macs and PCs since 1984 (and work as a professional IT developer and consultant on both platforms.)

Be wise to avoid the "advice" of trolls like this (you'll save yourself a lot of headaches.)

[newness_of_life]

Its funny, Tim, since you know nothing about me, that you should ascertain from one post that I know nothing about computers. I think your jaw would drop if you truly were aware of how much I do know about computers - and not just Windows, Linux, Mac or UNIX...

Mac OS9 has documented memory flaws - in fact, it was the instability of OS9 that caused Mac to adopt an OS from a third party - FreeBSD v3.2 - for the backend of OSX. (Many people would also say that they couldn't handle developing their own OS, but that's another topic altogether).

Since OS9 shares memory with all running applications - the OS, the Finder, and anything else you run - if one program crashes, it has a strong tendency to bring the whole system down with it.

While the Unix backend of OSX is designed to accommodate multiple running applications with its pre-emptive multitasking and isolated memory allocation, there are still memory leaks in OSX. This is likely caused by 2 things - either 1.) OSX developers do not have their stuff together writing 'carbonized' apps and are not dealing with memory issues in their programs correctly, or 2.) OSX is not perfect in its dealing with memory isolation yet - or, both.

Windows 98/ME had many of the same problems as OS9 - again, this is why Microsoft began making the push to its NT OS to the consumer with Win2000, and more so with WinXP.

Mac just isn't there yet - and probably won't be for many years. Otherwise, don't you think more software developers would have programs for OSX already? Digidesign, Macromedia... the list goes on and on of companies that do not have 1 program ready for OSX.

Windows 2000 and/or XP, on the other hand, is support, is rock-solid... and, notice I said that Mac is probably OK for Music and/or Graphics (which is a core audience of its users) - but not for other types of programs.

Also, keep in mind that this is my opinion - last I checked, having an opinion on an open discussion forum wasn't considered trolling. Just because you don't agree with me doesn't make me wrong.

It is wrong (and totally ascinine, close-minded, ignorant, judgmental, etc.), though, to judge a person from one reply on a forum.

:mad:

[newness_of_life]

Originally posted by TimOBrien
Obviously newness_of_life knows absolutely nothing about what he is talking about. I have owned both Macs and PCs since 1984 (and work as a professional IT developer and consultant on both platforms.)

Be wise to avoid the "advice" of trolls like this (you'll save yourself a lot of headaches.)


If you know so much about how a computer works, than why do I get a javascript runtime error on your website homepage? :confused:

[pooprobot]

I don't think there's anything wrong with a healthy debate, as long as people don't take things too personally :) I really do learn a lot from hearing different points of view on things. I also work with both PCs and Macs and there's definitely good and bad points to each, so I never take it too personally when someone bashes the PC, or vice-versa. Since I do mostly non-linear editing (Final Cut Pro and Avid) and music (MOTU DP), with graphic design on the side, I do prefer the Mac (I don't know why, I just seem to be more productive on the Mac). I also like PC's because there's certain software such as Acid and Fruityloops that Mac users can't use (unless you have VirtualPC, but I won't get into that). Keep the opinions coming, just keep it informative like it has been! Thanks!

[SteveR]

I am sure I answered this as some point but the message isn't there.

I wouldn't worry about the conflicts as I have used most of those programs on my G4/400 with no adverse effects at all. Keeping you system lean and clean is all very well for some but I have never experienced any notible errors with my system when dealing with audio from any of the other apps I have on the system.

Problems happen but often not to any great degree in my experience...

Good Luck

SteveR

[pooprobot]

I posted this same topic on the harmony-central forum, that's probably where you replied. Thanks Steve

[Adam Kennedy]

Keeping your system 'lean' is very important....sometimes. I'm not a computer genius, but I've worked with both Macs and PCs for audio and other apps for a long time. Most of the people I know and talk to on a regular basis do the same. There are people out there who crash a lot. I mean...a lot! Most, I suspect, don't have an appreciation for how hard they're expecting their computers to work, and so they push them, they crash...and complain. It seams to me that our expectations of computers will probably always be higher than their actual capabilities will allow. It is true that running multiple apps while doing audio is not a good idea. Sometimes, I've found, even having some programs on the same hard drive can cause problems. I had DP working great, then Pro Tools Free came out, I downloaded it, and it tried to take over my whole computer! All I had to do was turn off it's extension, but how rude! So, there is good, solid reason to keep one computer for audio, and another for everything else. That being said, we all know smokers, hard core drinkers and warriors-for-life that beat the odds and live to 100, and it's undeniable that many people run their computers in ways that should crash them, but don't. You never can tell. In my opinion, the 'lean' rule is a good one and should be followed. Not everyone can, however, and to them, there is hope. Many people get away with it, and you might too. Then again, you might not. One rule you all might want to live by is "Try it. See what happens". Hopefully, you have a back-up plan, the computer isn't killed and you can get back to business quick. By the way, I'd avoid OSX like the plague...for now. This isn't personal against OSX. I just don't trust any new software until it's been out for a while and tested in the real world, not just in the manufacturers plant. It usually takes about 6 months to a year, and OSX isn't there yet. I'd find an authentic version of OS9.0.4 (off your old Mac, or possibly as a download at the Mac web site?) and use that.

Good Luck!

[DAS]

First of all, the statement that "...in OS 9, you'll crash your system several times a day just running conventional apps..." is just wrong or at least far from the certainty that the writer asserts. That's probably why the writer's credibility was dinged. I know of a number of situations where literally dozens of OS9 Macs run for days and weeks at a time (without restart) running 6 to 15 different apps at once all the time (music, and non music related).

I use FCP3.0, Photoshop 5.5, and a number of music apps all on the same Mac (OS9) and it also runs for days and weeks at a time without crashing. That's not to say I've never had two crashes in the same day, but GENERALLY it is fine.

The advice to optimize your Mac for only what you are doing is sound (also sound PC advice). The advice to keep one Mac dedicated to music while you do your other work on another machine is also sound. Both will be more stable if you do this, but obviously this luxury isn't available to all of us. You'll have to muddle through the best you can, but it's really not a big deal. Final Cut Pro is very, very stable. Photoshop is stable enough, and these days most of the major music applications are decent.

In a few words - go for it! I'll bet you'll be surprised how few problems you have (of course that depends to some extent how hard you beat on each of these programs).

[mgmmusic]

Does anyone know where I can get some info on Quantizing thru Pro Tools. Do I have to use my keyboard as a MIDI to get quantizing or what? new at this... Thanks Marty mgmmusic@juno.com

[Nala]

I've been using Macs forever and have had almost no serious problems at all over the years. Currently I'm running DP 3.11 on a Mac G4 dual 1GB processor with 1.5 GB RAM/OS9.2.2 w/ a UAD-1 Studio Pak card. I also use MOTU 2408 MkIII and MkII interfaces with a Focusrite TwinTrak Pro front end.

I've run countless other applications...PhotoShop...Illustrator...Premiere. .. simultaneously with all of the above and in infinite combinations by themselves without the audio stuff...and all I can say is...my Mac with OS9.2.2 just keeps on a tickin' and a tickin' without any problems at all...and I mean 'at all'! I defrag routinely, rebuild desktop once a month and run Norton Disk Doctor every week....with the exception of the new UAD card I've never had a crash ever. I will admit I've had freeze ups when online using Netscape...but never using my audio programs. Mac is solid as a rock in that department and OS9.2.2 is absolutely fine!
Hope this helps,
Nala