Professional Voiceover Setup

[SwampDaddy]

I need to make some equipment decisions with regard to professional voice-over recording. I need the following:

a) Mic
b) Pre-amp
c) Compressor/Limiter ?
d) Stand
e) A/D Converter.

I bet the rich, warm, professional sounding voiceovers like you hear on a movie-trailer are done with certain equipment that has become the standard work-flow... Yes, I know that much of this is the "voice" yet, the proper equipment and the careful use of that gear is important as well.

The Mic. I was thinking that a large condenser Mic like a Neuman U87 or something like that would be one of the top mics...

The Pre-Amp. I was thinking that something like the Avalon 737 SP would be a great pre-amp for such a purpose and that the compression or limiting or both would be rather transparent.

Compressor/Limiter. If you chose not to use the Avalon, what out-board compressor/limiter would you choose? I would like one for mono use for VO and for singing and for certain instruments and I will also want a stereo one for archiving old video and old vinal to digital...

The Stand. What mic stand? Like all of the other equipment, I'm interedted in the gold-standard... the proven products with a following...

The A/D Converter. I know that Apogee is suppose to have the very best converters such as the Rosetta 200. Have you used one of these?

-------

So, what voiceover work-flow have you utilized or witnessed, and the results sounded AMAZING? I think you know what I'm talking about--what combo seemed to make it happen???

Also, what recording device? Direct to camcorder or via USB/FW bus to my Mac? What device and why?

Thanks in advance,

Robert

[Audioholic]

Swampdaddy,
I have been in professional commercial audio for quite some time, in fact I was the talent coordinator at a popular voice over studio, so one of my duties was to recruite new voice over talent, and check out the quality of thier studio to make sure it was passable. I have heard lots and lots of mics, studios, rooms etc. Here is some info to consider. A good mic iscertainly something you want to get. the U-87 is a great choice, an expensive one, but good. However with a sensitive mic like that you will need to make really really sure your recording environment is dead quite. the U-87 will bring out some of those low movie trailer type sounds, but you have to have good technique cause it will have lots of plosives if no handled correctly. Some other mics to think about would be a good audio technica, or AKG mic. they would be less expensive then the nueman and for voice over stuff, certainly would pass. Heck I had a vo talent who used a 100 dollar marshall mic, and a few hundred dollar pre and it sounded great on her voice. Some talent are using a seinheiser shotgun mic as well, and it was mentioned that studios in LA prefer to use the shotgun mic (small shotgun mic). So you might want to have both. A Pre like the avalon would be a good choice, however you could save some money and get a single channel Great River or something. YOU DO NOT need compression and eq when recording a voice over. I can't tell you have many times the talent I have connected with have a heavy compressor strapped on, and it just sounded aweful. 99.9 percent, and the many many other studios I have bridged talent to, prefered a flat send, no eq, no compression. Studios prefer to have the ability to put those dynamic effects on after, not while recording. If you were doing a live feed for a show, then maybe consider using a compressor, but for professional vo, you don't need it while tracking. You will want something to record your vo, probally something like a Pro tools Mbox. you won't need anything elebarate. Remember, this is just the spoken word. a good pre and mic and room will be the winning combination. Have you looked into ISDN? When I engineered at the commercial studio, we had hundreds of VO talent, and mostly we connected to them remotely via ISDN. ISDN is a way to connect 2 studios together using a codec on both sides. A good ISDN codec, like the Telos Zypher Xtream, will be a few grand, then you will have to pay to have it installed and montly upkeep. Sounds expensive, studios usually dial the talent. but if you want to connect to other studios in real time, you will need something like this. ISDN is still being used widely, no matter what anyone says. WE did not accept voice over talent who was not able to connect for a real time session. In professional vo, there will more then likely be a director who will want to interact with the talent, so you need real time connecting capabilities. An alternative method, that is gaining popularity is something called Source connect. it is a plug that right now only works with pro tools and allows you to connect with studios via the internet, it has a higher encoding quality then ISDN and can do multiple sends. however both parties have to be on pro tools and have the plug. there are other ISDN options as well, let me know if you want more info.....

So to recap -
a good mic (expensive choice - U87)
(less expensive choice AKG 414, Audio technia mic, or something similar)
(alternate mic - a small shotgun mic)

A good Pre - Avalon would be fine, but you don't need the eq or compressor in most cases, a single channel great river, Grace pre etc etc.)

An oustandingly quite acoustically treated vo booth, no computer noise, no traffic noise, silent!

a means to connect with other studios, ISDN, source connect

a way to record auditions or possible send vo files - Mbox

[skid]

Source Connect will have a VST edition coming out soon. From sounds of it, the studio would need to be on PT, but the talent could have a home setup with Audition or something along those lines. Last I heard beta was a few weeks away on that. But it's coming soon.

[Vo-Guy]

Yeah, keep the VO clean. Mainstays are the U87 and the Sennheiser MKH-416. Clean pre's are a must, Avalon M5, Grace 101, Hardy M-1 just depends on what you wanna spend right now. No compresson or eq is needed for commercial VO's but if your gonna be doing imaging you will need it. UA 1176ln, UA LA-3a or something along those lines will work or you could just use Plug-ins for starters.

If you wanna hear a clean setup, check out www.joecipriano.com. His setup is U87>Avalon M5 for commercials and for imaging he throws a Urei LA4 in as well. Sounds great! You'll know his voice when you hear it.

Glad to hear Source Connect is coming to the PC. In my area I can't get ISDN because Ma-Belle won't put it in so I have to drive 30 minutes to another studio for an ISDN session. Alot of phone companies are not installing any new ISDN lines because the technology is considered "outdated". Phone companies words not mine.

Russ

[skid]

Russ,

The Beta for Source Connect VST just went up on the Source Elements website a day or two ago. FYI.


Yeah, Cipriano. That guy is everywhere! My personal favorite is David Kaye. I just dig what he does.

U87. I'd settle for a TLM103 at this baby-step-into-it stage of doing some freelance VO, but a vintage 87 is definitely up there on my list of dream mics. Maybe I'll wait till I'm making some coin for that though. I've heard from my wife that dropping $3G for a mic on spec can be hazardous to my health. :o

[Vo-Guy]

Hey, alot of guys use the TLM 103 and it sounds great. Don't know what the budget is but I know that the 103 through a Focusrite ISA 220 sounds great!

[dpd]

I think you would want to spend a LOT more $ on a higher-end A/D than an Mbox if you wanted to send VO files.

[Joseph Hanna]

I think you would want to spend a LOT more $ on a higher-end A/D than an Mbox if you wanted to send VO files.

Well now...in "spirit" I know what your saying but perhaps I could shed some light.

I am fortunate to work with the top 9 or 10 VO talents in the world on a daily basis. The description of "top" would be based on income, frequency of use here in Hollywood and who has the current trendy delivery.

75% or more of my sessions are ISDN. This of course puts me at the mercy of the quality of the phone service in the talents area, the phone lines usage that day and MOST importantly the inability to have any control over how and why the talent setup both his Zepher box and mic/preamp the way he or she did.
The sessions always include various project coordinators and or writers and or directors in the room and it would be politically incorrect to start piddy futzing with ISDN settings when some "executive" from Sony was watching his or her watch and tapping their toe.

The point here is some days the best VO talent in the world comes to me by an unbelievably bad ISDN line. The quality is worse than you might think. I'm willing to bet however if you listen to NBC's monday night promo lineup you will NOT be able to tell which one is ISDN and which one is in house.

Splitting hairs over the age old this "converter" sucks isn't a passing thought in my world. I never get comments from clients about the pristine audio quality (or lack there in) from a VO. I DO constantly get criticism over delivery and or interpretation.

I'll guarantee you the M-Box converters sound better than some busy ISDN sessions. They'll do just fine.

[Vo-Guy]

I DO constantly get criticism over delivery and or interpretation.

Joseph,

I agree with you 100%. I went through the "gotta have the latest and greatest" gear phase. I bought a setup that's pretty much a staple in the VO industry a U87 and a MKH-416 and a clean pre the Avalon M5. Didn't start out with that but the Vo biz has been very kind to me over the last 5 years. The best money I've spent has been on classes and training. Your performance is what win's you the gigs, not whether you've got the lastest gear.

Russ

[dpd]

I'll guarantee you the M-Box converters sound better than some busy ISDN sessions. They'll do just fine.

Agreed - that's why I was wondering what converters you would recommend if you sent files, instead of going live. Or, is sending files such a small part of the business it really doesn't matter?

[Audioholic]

Joseph,

have you tried source connect yet? It has the potential to sound better then ISDN, but right now is limited to Pro tools users. Having used ISDN for a long time, and working at home, its a nice addition without the expensive isdn line charges.

[Joseph Hanna]

Joseph,

have you tried source connect yet? It has the potential to sound better then ISDN, but right now is limited to Pro tools users. Having used ISDN for a long time, and working at home, its a nice addition without the expensive isdn line charges.

No we haven't tried Source Connect yet but certainly we are aware of it. I'm guessing most of the guys I'm working with would not be up for any changes in their work flow. In fact now that I think about it I'm guessing most of the guys I work with wouldn't even be up to me making the suggestion.

There are boundries in this business and most of the time I'm not gonna mention their ISDN sound sucks UNLESS they ask. Some are too busy (and too well paid) to care much let alone make a fundamental change in their setup.

As far as sending files..we do get some work (during busy sweep periods) sent to use from oversea's. Most of the high end guys that we work with will NOT (by contractual agreement) send the Pro Tool session itself. Obviously if they're that sought after they have a vested interest in not letting me see exactly what they are doing. That said each project usually has a pre-determined spec. Sometimes it's a .Wav and a MP3 rate of some kind.

Again the point here is I can't remember any PC, writer, creative director, big wig, little wig or anyone in between EVER complaining about the lack of convertion/audio quality. A great VO talent with the ability to interpret a spot, deliver it quickly with minimum fuss trumps a high end converter and mic/pre combo every time.

Of course the flip side to all of this is if you're a successful VO guy in this town for any lenght of time you'll have MORE than enough shells to buy whatever you want whenever you want and as often as you like.

[Audioholic]

[QUOTE=Joseph Hanna]No we haven't tried Source Connect yet but certainly we are aware of it. I'm guessing most of the guys I'm working with would not be up for any changes in their work flow. In fact now that I think about it I'm guessing most of the guys I work with wouldn't even be up to me making the suggestion.

There are boundries in this business and most of the time I'm not gonna mention their ISDN sound sucks UNLESS they ask. Some are too busy (and too well paid) to care much let alone make a fundamental change in their setup.

No, I agree with you that we are both on the talent and producers side. But as an engineer, its my job to optimize the sound and ISDN connection as best as I can . I have often had to spend time with each talent optimizing thier sound and setup, if it did not fit a standard quality clients are used to getting, and that goes with an unamed talent to a William Morris talent. I have found most talent really enthusiastic to stay current and improve their sound, and open to suggestions. Unless they are pre-maddona's, and have a supreme attitude, then luckily for me, I had much say in if I and the company would work with them again. Attitude can go far with a talent, and I have seen Talent lose BIG gigs due to bad attitude both with the directors and engineers.

Source connect is pretty kewl, and can get slightly complicated. But you have the ability to go much higher on the quality, speically if you are sending music stereo. you can go up to 320 kbit, Sometimes its a bit much for talent who are not tech savy, but for those that are, they love using it. Its a GREAT ISDN alternative, specially when lines are down or you are having trouble, and usually has less of a delay then ISDN. They are coming out with a VST version soon, so It will be more widely compadible. Plus, no ISDN line charges. Talent love that who are not making the big bucks.

[skid]

VST beta is now available on their website. Full version I'd expect won't be too far down the road.

[The Voice]

There is also another alternative to ISDN due out soon called "iSpeek" ( www.ispeek.info ). It is also an IP codec which will be available for PC and Mac. It will not require a specific DAW as it records to it's own folder, thus you can bring the file into most DAW's.

ISDN codecs have some inherent problems due to the limited bandwidth of 128k for a BRI line.. that is two 64k lines bonded together. Thus, an audio signal must be highly compressed prior to entering the ISDN lines. We all know - or should know, that the higher the compression the lower the quality. On the other hand, the lower the compression - the higher the audio quality. With IP Codecs the bandwidth is only limited by your Upload/Download speed of your Broadband Internet connection. If you choose higher quality with less compression; say an MPEG3, 192 kb, 24 bit 48kHz audio signal as input and your upload speed can handle that - you will have a very nice, clean, and lower compression audio file received by the other end. So the benifits of IP codecs are becoming popular due to the increased quality of the audio when sending and receiving.

I use a U87 Gold or an AKG C-12 into a MOTU 828MKII. You can spend a lot of money on microphones and pre-amps and soundcards - each VO Talent or Artist must decide which is better for his/her voice. Find out where you can record using the microphone you are considering buying (and maybe a few others) and play - a lot. Record to your hearts desire to see if that is really the mic chain you want and need.

I also have a new Win/Mac with PT HD into an Apogee Rosetta. There are a lot of toys one can buy, but you must decide which is right for you and your clients.

Each piece of gear means more attempts to make it work properly, many microphones need a pre-amp as they do not have enough signal to be detected in some DAW's or soundcards. Which 'pre-amp' to choose? That will depend upon your style, the microphone output level, how much precessing you choose to use and your clients needs and desires.

I have always said "buy what you can afford, and make it (the equipment) work for your needs and sound".

The Voice

[Audioholic]

Even though ISDN can only go up to 128, in mono mode that is fine for voice over. For stereo applications is where it gets poor. I have heard Better sounding ISDN talent, then straight files out of some studios, so really, if you know how to tweak it, ISDN can sound fine, as long as its mono 128.

Its funny, on that site, there are audio demonstrations of people saying it sounds "this" good, but I didn't think it sounded that good. hmmm. I think source connect is the way to go for DAW recording no doubt.

[stonevoiceovers]

https://commerce86.datapipe.com/gkacoustics/store.asp?area=FullProduct&productid=150&categoryid=8

[Rad]

Well we've already had a nice discussion of whether vintage gear is overrated, so I will not comment on U87's. As it is clear to most studio people in this forum, this is mostly a matter of perceived prestige, because, particularly for voiceover, you can get very similar results with a say 200$Rode mic, for example, as pointed out by Audioholic.

As regards microphone stands... here I can't see even a prestige argument to spend lots and lots of money on that. My opinion is, if someone is inefficient enough to believe that a superexpensive stand makes a real difference to the sound of the recording, let them buy it. If this is how much they know about the recording process, then they deserve to spend their money inefficiently and get ripped off by the retailer. Who am I to interfere?! :D