recommendations/suggestions for my setup

[dhassay]

hi, i'm a pro drummer getting started in digital recording. I have already custom built the pc and now its time for the audio hardware. what suggestions do you have?
I already have a 6 channel older analog mixing board, 6 channels of compressors, reverb, ect. I use SAW32 for digital recording now and quite use to it.
I would like to be able to make demo recordings that would include vocals, guitars both elect/acoustic, bass, keys, and of coarse drums. so far I am leaning towards the aardvark Q10. I like the idea of plugging my drums mics directly into the Q0 and staying digital from there, this would bypass my older mixer, provide plenty (8) inputs simultanously. It has inserts for my outboard compressors ect.
what other equiptment would be needed at this point? thanks, dan

[Scott Reiber]

start over and get a mac :-)

[dhassay]

wow, what a great suggestion. thanks for helping me out so much. IDIOT!!!!

THERE IS ALWAYS A SMARTASS OUT THERE

[Scott Reiber]

nice...

[dude21]

ideally a mac would have been better, but don't worry about it. What kind of software are you using? If you don't have a software or hardware yet I'd suggest ProTools. Digi001 should be fine. You said your PC was made so I'm assuming you have plenty of RAM and at least 2 hard drives running at 7200rpms. Your mixer might come in handy depending on how it sounds or how many tracks you need simultaneously. I'd have to say that when working digital the most important thing is to use good mics and good mic pre's before the converter.

[synesthesia]

on the other hand, the 001 kinda sounds like poo, and Digidesign's product support is the worst.

-stef

[skykrab]

Having used a PC based system in the past..now don't bite my head off but.. in the long run mac is a better platform for music than PC...does;nt have quite the support but the who do are outstanding. as for hardware..I'm using 2 mac setups a 2408 w/my Desktop sys, and 828 w/ the glyph 40 firewire HD, and this is awesome..so if you have firewire, the 828 is the way to go..yes it works w/ PC, but a mac w/ MOTU DP3 & 828 is IMHO for the price almost imposible to beat. Talk to the Sweetwater guys..there very MOTU savy. Caio:cool:

[dhassay]

perhaps nobody quite understood what I said. I already have a PC that I custom built. not a mac but a PC. I have custom built them for years, I have been an administrator for years and my systems are very very stable. I'm not putting down mac by any means but quit telling me to get a mac when I already said what I have.

what type of head gasket should I use for my ford ranger?
and then you would answer with this---uhh, like buy a chevy.

[Scott Reiber]

Hey man.. you're the one who wanted the best advice... and you're getting it... Why not listen to what we have to say... PC audio is awful... If you don't agree... it's your loss not ours

[dhassay]

let me start over-

using the equiptment that I already have, what do you reccommend that I do? in other words I want to keep and use what I have for now to at least see if I have the interest in this. If so and I see the need for a mac then I will buy one. I believe I could at least get a taste of what daw has to offer by using my crappy *** piece of crap PC, and then I would be able to apprecitae my purchase of the almighty mac. I just get so tired of all of the pc-mac wars. I am very talented with pc's. Yes they do really piss me off sometimes and they can act like complete idots sometimes. But I'm good with them and there shortcomings make my living at times. I do completey understand where you are coming from. If someone asked me what I would reccommend to somebody who wants a bad ***, stable as hell machine that was extremely easy to use ect. then I would say mac and the same for the graphic artists, video, and most likely for audio recording.
I just cant justify spending the money required to get the mac I want to see if I can really get into recording. hopefully someone can help me out with this perspective. thanks

[blacko3788]

I would say to go with the Mark of the Unicorn (MOTU 2408mk) this unit is a little bit more money than the Ardvark, but it works great with your PC platform. The program I would use with it would be either MOTU digital performer or Logic audio. For those of you who are sold on just Mac computers....I've worked with both and lean toward the PC. The PC is the most widely used computer in the world and soon will out perform the Mac. I've been using soley the PC for about three years and have had none of the problems that people say they experience with PC. Make sure you have enough RAM memory. I use 512 mb and never have any problems there.

[Scott Reiber]

Blacko is definately right about the MOTU 2408... It's a great card for the money

[skykrab]

As I posted earlier.. the 828 (MOTU) will work for PC if you have a firewire setup..it is very affordable..approx $700.00 sounds great...will work well w/ cubase...I'm sure your a fine systems administrator...but can thousands of musician...who put there money where their mouth is be wrong....The 2408 is also very good...originally it was installed in a PC..until i got that mean, bad ole mac...anyway the reason alot of the people who keep pushing mac IMO...and not being able to afford a full blown PROTools set up is DP/MOTU Hardware/Midi interface...that **** was meant to work together...and it works very very well...when you asked for advice...and it's not what you want remember it's free.
good luck...I prefer Dodge:D

[Scott Reiber]

I agree with you completely... I prefer Chrysler

[c_sthilaire]

I also use a 2408 mkii. I also custom built my PC as well. I am running Logic Audio and Vegas Video. I have NEVER had a system crash, and I typically outperform anyone with a MAC :(

The MOTU 2408 is the way to go as it offer ADAT and TASCAM Digital ports. So you have room for expansion.

[Scott Reiber]

PC is Jive... I bet you got alot of nice cheap awful gear to go with it as well... Vegas is awful... Try Final Cut Pro 3... you might learn something

[SR1200]

dhassay --- I agree with you, this forum is filled with a bunch of know it all smart asses!!

First off, the question is whats in your proce range. Thats the most relavent question. If money was no object then you would have an infinite possibilities. If theres a budget youre trying to stay within. It will narrow your choices, but not necessarily narrow your sound quality. If youre looking to just throw some demos together you dont need to go with all this pro crap. You can get away with using a lot less expensive gear and still get get a great sounding product (let us remember what some of the greatest albums were recoded on..... 4 tk... reel to reel... no digital editing... get the hint) I'm a firmly believe that a good engineer can make even the worst equipment sound good.

From your earlier posts, it seems that youre just looking to make some demo stuff, youre not looing to open a pro studio
The MOTU card is great (though ive never had use for one) i do know people that use it and have never had problems.
CUBASE - from MY EXPERIENCE- is a pain in the *** to get going, lots of conflicts and things that just plain dont work. Once its up and running, its not too bad. MIDI and Digital.
Cakewalk is a cool program (i use only for midi) but there are those that use it for digital recording as well, (I hear the new SONAR program is pretty good check that out)
VEGAS IS a decent program, (and anyone that tells you otherwise doesnt know how to use it!) If you have a quick machine, theres almost nothing you cant do with it for digital audio... (NO MIDI>thats the drawback)
Ive gotten away with a 7200 RMP drive with absolutely NO problems. (recording and playing back upto 24 - 26 tracks)
This one is gonna get me hell!!!--- Check out the soundblaster AUDIGY platinum. It supports the SF2 sample format (basically, any wav you can make into a sample theres MILLIONS of samples available for free on the WWW and its CHEAP) 24 BIT AUDIO! If you get the interface (the EX or the Internal) It has Lightpipe in and out, SPDIF in and out RCA in and out and some other cool features)
The only other thing i would reccomend is getting a decent touch sensitive keyboard (MIDI). Hope this helps atleast a little. PC's have come a long way. The MAC USED to be the best for audio. Times are a changing! If you know how to use a PC, its pretty damned powerful.
-fellow PC user!

[SR1200]

I love these guys that think you need to have the most expensive gear in the world to do anything. Gotta laugh.

[Scott Reiber]

laugh all you want.. but the pros speak for themselves...

[SR1200]

and i guess having the MOST expensive gear makes you a pro....... its funny, especially since you dont know anything about me, what I do and whom ive worked with....... I will laugh... at you for being such an ignorant *** ****!!!

[Scott Reiber]

i don't care who you worked with or who you are.. your resume means nothing to me.. so why don't you settle on your garbage and i'll settle on mine... ok? Have a nice day :-)

[c_sthilaire]

I guess your right, Vegas may not be the best program, but since I am feeding it with a rack of Manley pre-amps with Soundelux and Royer mics it sounds pretty damn good to me:)

[SR1200]

boy, scott is a tough guy huh. Probably trying to overcompensate for some other little things in life huh. LOL. people like that amuse me. They try so hard and achieve so little. Yes, ill settle on my "garbage". And im sure he'll continue to think things like the price of a guitar will determine the sound that comes out of it. I'll continue to do my work and live happily, and he'll be and angry miserable person for the rest of his life. He really showed me huh?!

[Scott Reiber]

that's real nice.. I wanted you to know how much I liked it.. Your a real cool guy!!!

[everett_chris]

I'd have to agree with the 2408; it's converters are considered to be very good, and then you can interface the mic pre's that you want, rather than being stuck with the ones that are in a unit, and the ADAT ports are great too.

And, Scott, I'm curious, how is PC audio awful. Many of the major software, hardware, and Plug-ins are available for both platforms, (pro-tools, cubase, nuendo, waves plug-ins, that 2408) and once the audio is digital, your just doing math on it, and it does not matter if your using a PC, a Mac or a pocket calculater, the end results are the same, as long as your using the same fomulas. Sure, buy that $500 compusa pc speacial, and you get what you pay for, but that's clearly not what's beind discussed here. As for what the pro's use, a lot, or even most, use both. Yeah, it's easier to get a mac working right on the first try, but again, if your talking to someone who knows PC's already, I can't see an advantage of going to a different platform. (One exception.....video editing, but that's a different forum)

dhassay, I hope you don't take the attitude of some of the posters here as typical of this forum, it's usually much more civil.

[Solrac]

I have to say that I work with PC. In reality is not if you have a PC or a MAC! It is how much endurance you have in order to try your best regardless the equipment. NUMBER ONE! don;t let the equipment manage you! 2) You manage the equipment.

Macs and PCS! They are just machines. If you have the talent to produce music that is the most important element that you have!

I would encourage you to go into recording. Talk to people about
soundcards and midi. Use USB interface.

If you can use firewire that will be great! . The mixer is alright! The software that I use is Cakewalk 9! It is a very good software. You can combine midi and wave at the same time. And it gives you many options for effect.

I have had great experiences with the PC!

:)

[Mtn Fever]

Why bother. By the time you buy the software, a/d converters and mic pre's and sound cards and burning hardware etc, you could pick up a used AW4416 and have a complete unit to do all you need and then some. There are lots of used DAW that are capable of putting out high quality material if you know how to use them. But most of the whiners forget that garbage in = garbage out.

[Ernest828]

Hey Scott,

All kidding aside, the MAC / PC war as far as recording is concerned will always exist. If you are comfortable with PC, then cool, get over this MAC talk. I honestly wouldn`t touch a PC for digital audio simply because of all the fine, softwares available on MAC. However, after all of this computer talk is done, in the end, the platform you choose is not that important if you are comfortable with PC, right?

After the computer decision is made and it is; decide on a sequencer/audio recorder. If you are building your studo from scratch you need to consider being accessible to other studios as well which in your case will be difficult in the PC world. I am not trying to be smart *** here just being honest. You should look into getting an ADAT or two and then that way you could drag ADAT tapes around from studio to studio. After that problem is solved, get yourself 2 pre amps that kick *** (Avalons, Martechs, Neves, or Manleys of the world). Get some great, time proven mics (Neumann, Audio Technica, AKG, Shures).

Now your covered: you`ve got your PC / Recorders / Mic Pres / and Mics.

The 2nd option is sell your PC, get a MAC G4 Dual Processor / Digital Performer 3.01 / a MOTU 2408 and live happily ever after while saying, "What was I thinking with that PC?"

Peace,
Ernest

[blacko3788]

Here's the skinny on pro audio:
Yes there are some studios out there that spend the big bucks on gear that only improves the sound like 5 percent than something that costs ten times less, but there are other studios who research and buy gear that is high quality for less. I have a friend who bought a $5,000. manley mic. I don't notice that big of a difference than say a good quality neumann mic that would justify paying that much extra.

Some of the programs that are mentioned in earlier posts are not that good of quality...for example cakewalk Cubase or sonar. These programs are like starter DAWs or semi pro gear-home project studio. Like when you all were young and had to ride a bike with training wheels on. They can teach alot about digital audio, but you will be left out in the cold on many aspects of the digital recording process.

Sure you can get a decent sound out of them but it's not pro gear sound as in the big studios. The reason that the big studio's have such a great sound isn't just the men who get paid the big coin to run them but also the equipment they use. You think Madana uses Cakewalk to record? Why not it's just as good as Protools...right? Wrong!!!

All the years of research and development in digital audio pioneering at Digidesign and A/D convertors is what makes protools sound so good. If you don't want to spend the big bucks on Protools then there are other digital solutions such as Logic Audio ( like 1/4 the cost of protools) used with a great sound card. The bare minimum would be like RME or a 2408 MOTU..but keep in mind these aren't full blown pro sound card. They don't have the most stabble of wordclocks....MOTU 2408 is known for it's hight word clock jitter.
This is where Apogee (again very expensive) would be a great way to input single in the computer. You WILL notice a difference. I have to agree with Scott, the reason that people pay the big bucks for gear is because you do get what you pay for. The studios which use Neve, Amek, and Oxford consoles aren't buying these just because they like to spend the money on something big and pretty.
Your Sonar cakewalk program with ardvard sound card will not sound like a protools rig with Apogee convertors.

[A1A2]

Dan wanted to record his drum sets. i don't think he ever mentioned to be a pro sound engineer or making a hit album with his home setup.....why are we arguing?

[Ted]

Dan-

To answer your question (which seems to have been lost somewhere), I think the Direct Pro Q10 would be a great choice for your situation. It sounds as good as about anything in its price range, and Aardvark as a company is known for the stability of their word clocks (which was a point mentioned earlier in this thread). Keep in mind, though, that only the first four inputs have phantom power and inserts, so those are the only ones you'll be able use condenser microphones with (without external power supplies) and that you'll be able to insert your compressors in. It's a great system for someone starting out like you because it comes with Cakewalk Pro Audio 9, which is (as mentioned earlier on this forum) not the preferred professional recording package out there, but it's great to start with and you can always upgrade to another program like Nuendo, which seems to be the preferred PC program at this point.

As for everyone screaming "get a Mac", there certainly are valid reasons to do so. It is still the dominant platform for professional audio production...someone had mentioned Digital Performer earlier, which is only available on Mac. Pro Tools is available for both platforms, but support on the Mac is way ahead of the PC (most plugins come out for the Mac platform first, and quite a few aren't and likely will never be available for PC). But with a well-built PC you can do quite well, especially with a higher-end program such as Nuendo. Have fun!

-Ted

[blacko3788]

The reason we have these forums is to communicate many different ideas. Some my be great and some well, not so great. I think if someone doesn't buy at least quality gear they should save their money and go to a real recording studio that will make them sound like a million bucks.

[Ducksqueeze]

You know blacko3788, not to sound insulting or anything, but it's kind of funny that as a studio owner you would recommend using an expensive recording studio instead of doing the recording themselves. If all you want to do is make some demos, why suggest to someone that they spend 15 grand on a full Pro Tools setup? That's like saying that someone needs a bulldozer to drive a nail into a piece of wood when a hammer would do just fine. As for the remarks about Sonar and PC audio in general, I'm sure that allot of people would strongly disagree that Sonar is not a professional product. Even Digidesign makes consumer level products! Take the DIG I001 for example. At least the MOTU 2408 with Sonar has a SIMPTE ruler and lock.


Peace
Ducksqueeze

[blacko3788]

Not wanting to sound like a know it all...I'm not, but there is a difference between pro gear and lesser demo gear. The point is that Sonar ( so professional it can't even transmit MMC to an automated digital mixing board) and MOTU 2408( which I own, soon to buy Apagee) and cakewalk aren't full blown pro gear. I just hate when I see people wasting their money as I have done in the past on gear that is well...not upto par in the professional grade.

The reason we have these forums is to learn off of people who have been there and pick up new ideas and yes even get critisism on what we do. I do not mind when a person gives me critisism on what I do or say, but I can back what I say because my ears have heard the difference, just trying to pass on things I've learned.

It is great to learn new things from someone who can teach me about new technique or even equipment. But some of the things that we've heard in this forum on demo gear I've heard many times over and I know what the end result will be. "Boy did I waste money on this"!

I bought two Alesis adat machines 3 years before I bought my current DAW. I thougt it was the best in digita audio. I was told not to get it from friends in the pro agalog genre; didn't listen, must have known more than they did...boy was I wrong... there was no difference between analog or 16 bit or 20,24 bit...right?...WRONG AGAIN!!

People should quit putting these lower level programs and gear in the same class with with pro gear. It's fine to buy it but understand that SONAR even though it may sound great, is never and will never with it's current version be anything better than an underdog DAW for bedroom demos.

Maybe I better cut back on my morning coffee...he he

[cadesignr]

Hi, I'm a chrysler and PC fan. I run autocad on top of my music programs. Anyone run cad on a mac?
Anyway, the last time I listened to a CD, I couldn't decide if they recorded it on a Mac or PC. I don't think anyone else can either! Have fun, thats the point.
R. Fitzpatrick

[jeronimo]

I also use a 2408 mkii. I also custom built my PC as well. I am running Logic Audio and Vegas Video. I have NEVER had a system crash, and I typically outperform anyone with a MAC

Ohhh yeah???