Console Upgrade

[ABC123]

Hello all,
Im posting this topic here instead of the Mixing forum because there seems to be a lot more people coming through the Control Room message board.
The time has come for me to upgrade my entire operating system from the typical 8 track home workstation. I am planning on purchasing a new mixing desk as well and though I'm still researching my options, I have come upon the 32 channel Mackie 8 buss and the Soundcraft Ghost. I am trying to make my "project studio" effort on par with that of which could handle doing demos and/or full lengths or any project for local bands, and those not so close. Ive chosen the 32 channel frame size to accommodate 16 - 24 tracks of ADAT, and I'm also looking into purchasing an Otari 1" 16 track reel-to-reel, but that's a bit more into the future if I decide to at all. Right now, Ive been going nuts with spec sheets and brochures and I still have some questions seeing as I most likely wont get to demo any of these boards. My two main concerns are having quality, clear, low noise preamps and a very "musical" eq with wide frequency ranges. Right now I'm leaning towards the Ghost because of these reasons and more. It is more expensive, but seems like it would satisfy my needs the best. The autolocate and transport features would be really nice too. For architectural design, what are some advantages and/or disadvantages of having individual vertical channel strip circutry boards (as in the ghost) as opposed to having the 8 channels to 1 board times 4 horizontal boards design (the Mackie)? I know the vertical is more service friendly, but both companies claim their design is built stronger than the other. Aside from internal specs, can anyone describe to me their user experience on any of these boards whether tracking, mixing, mastering or all of the above. To those who have used both, which eq did you find "sweeter" and which board's preamps do you feel were the most accurately translating the instrument to tape. I'm aware of the price difference between the 2 boards, but Im a firm believer in buying equipment that I'll grow into, not out of.
Lastly, the Soundtracs Topaz has been another option brought up to me. There are a few things about it I didn't find too great, mainly being the equalizer section's narrow bandwiths but if there are any other alternatives in the 8 buss world, I'm open to comments, advice and criticisms.
Thank You
Chris

[David Klausner]

Hello Chris,

The Mackie consoles revolutionized the project studio world by bringing an unbelievable combination of sound quality and features in at a previously unheard of price point. They are rock solid boards, and I have owned and used one trouble free for about six years now. While the preamps are good, I would give an edge to the pre's in the Ghost. Similarly, I personally find the Ghost's EQ to be more "musical". The Mackie seems to me to be an excellent problem solving EQ, but not up to the flexibility of the Ghost's as a tone shaper. Of course, the Ghost is about twice the money as the Mackie.

You may also want to consider a digital console. In addition to sound quality, these boards often offer complete automation of all parameters, 4 bands of fully parametric EQ and dynamics on every channel. If you are recording digitally, you also get the advantage of not having to do an extra stage of D/A and A/D conversion.

In addition, you may want to look into some of the newer hard disc recording options, as opposed to tape based systems. Many of them offer more tracks, 24 bit audio, and editing features not found in the tape world. Of course there are a number of different systems, and there are always trade-offs.

In my opinion, the bottom line is that while these forums are a great source for soliciting opinions on gear and techniques, if you are looking to put together an entire studio, there is no substitute for working with a professional, such as your personal sales engineer here at Sweetwater (shameless plug). We specialize in system design - assessing your needs,wants and preferred method of working, and coming up with a total package to address them. The forward thinking you show with your statement about wanting to get into a system you will grow into and not out of, will be best complemented by such an approach, and I would encourage you to give us a call.

[ABC123]

Thank you very much. I certainly will be giving you guys a call pretty soon.

[Foreverain4]

another thing to consider is the expandability of the mackie 32-8. if you are looking at 24 ch of adat and 16 tape you are already out of channels. the 32-8 has a 24ch expansion unit that you can purchase later (when you get the tape machines). i personally have a 32-8 and am in love with the thing. i only use it for tracking, not mix down yet, i do all my mixing in software because of automation. the preamps are very transparent, but i do prefer my outboard preamps.

[Scott Reiber]

try a mackie d8b... or if you want to the real deal... go with an AMEK/NEVE

[michaelhoddy]

Hey Scott, just curious, which Amek console are you using?

[Scott Reiber]

I don't personally own one... but I've worked on and am still working on a Mozart, a Galileo, the original Angela, and a Neve Capricorn. That stuff is Big Bucks !! But it sounds great... another way to get the "Big Console Sound" is to just buy like 16 or 32 channels of really good mic pres... what kind of sound are you trying to get? Colored? or Transparent? It all depends on what you want..

[dude21]

The Mackie 8 bus isn't necessarily bad, it's just lacking a bit on it's own. If you have good outboard EQ's and mic pre's then it's fine and mackie even makes an automation system for it. i've never used it though. On the other hand if you can afford a neve you shouldn't even be thinking of a mackie. One post said to try the D8B and you should. I'ts a great board with lots of great features and it works great with mackie's hard disc recorder. Although I'd suggest trying out some of the dynamics plug-ins for it since the compressors it comes with sucks, and the eq's aren't that great. I don't know about your experience with ADATs but me and everyone I know have never had anything good to say about them except they make good paper weights.

[Scott Reiber]

I definately agree with you Dude21 adats are absolutely terrible... the D8b is ok.. for the $$ ... I'd much rather use pro tools or diagital performer plugins

[blacko3788]

I personally don't own one but I do know that I've heard some incredable stuff done with ADATs. I know the older 16 and 20 bit adats are crapy but the new 24 bit audio is pretty good.

I would recomend the new Tascam DM 24 fully automated digital mixing board. The Mic pres are comparable to the Yamaha O2r. It is a 32 channel mixing(recording) board with 16 mic inputs. This baby has 8 busses and 6 aux sends and mic and monitor modeling. Wait! It also has the TC Works Megaverb built right into it. Use this board in conjunction with the MOTU 2408 and have 24 TDIF inputs

[SR1200]

I know im gonna get bashed for saying this but.... for a home studio.... go with a HD recorder... youll save time and money on tape alone!!! editing is infinitely easier, and storage not only lasts longer but is way cheaper than buying a reel (and you get more tracks!) I was looking in to the new HD24 (the alesis new adat thing) I was sold on it from the ads and the hype, but when it didnt come out, i started researching other options (with the help of Matthew Craig at Sweetwater) I decided to go for broke and get the Mackie HDR24/96. I cant say enough how impressed i am with this machine! The onscreen editing and capabilities are just astounding! The unit can upgrade with you (via the IO cards available ie: digital/analog) You really cant go wrong with something like this!