trying to get definition of recording a guitar with boss metal zone effect pedal!

[quahtemoc]

allright guys...

i am recording this band...they play hardcore and this is the problem..

to record even the initial layer of a distorted guitar effect recorded from the amp itself...how do i sucessfully record the first layer and the rest and eliminating that dry annoying fuzz and getting a phat heavy sounding chugging guitar...it is the eq-ing? or mic placement to amp? or the Boss Metal Zone Pedal lined in straight to the console line input? or anything else?

for an idea of what guitar sound i am trying to get here...let me pass you guys a reference...say something by the band "earth crisis"...it could be any one of their albums..but i need that guitar sound thats rounded..phat and doesnt have fuzz!

i'd really appreciate any ideas/techniques you guys could provide for me to put into practice to try pulling this off!..thanks heaps!

P.S- I am working on an alesis digital 24 track console (i'll get back to you on the model once i check out the studio)...linear format recording straight to a pc hard-drive.

[Random Soundman]

Lets see if I can help you out here, Ive dealt with a lot of hardcore & heavier bands over the past year so I understand where you're coming from. I can give you some preliminary suggestions but I'd need to know a little more about your setup before we make any major decisions. I've never heard of a 24 track digital mixer from Alesis (but I haven't really been keeping up with them past the bankrupcy business) so I'll assume you have 24 tracks of computer hard drive to play with. Now, what kind of guitar amp and guitar are you recording? These will be the main contributions to your tone. The saying, "bad sound in = bad sound out" can't be more true at this stage. Second, what kind of microphone(s) are you using........sm57, U87, K=WallMart P.O.S., or all of the above? Are you running through the mixer's mic pre or an outboard "channel strip" or a mono preamp? These can greatly shape your tone depending on tube vs. solid state and the varying quality of either or.
The Metalzone is very popular among heavy bands nowadays but an alternative is the amp's distortion (providing it has one and is decent sounding). You may like one over the other or both. I personally dont think running a distorted guitar direct is what your looking for. Going from guitar to distortion box to mixer cuts out a lot of the low end and this kind of music relys greatly on that aspect of the guitar. A mic up against the grille of the amp speaker is just fine for what your trying to accomplish. The key to thick guitars is LAYERING and MORE LAYERING. Go listen to Siamese Dream from Smashing Pumpkins. Its not the genre your dealing with but the guitars were layered 30 to 40 times depending on the song. Theryre "heavy" and "thick" and "fat" and "creamy" if you will. And these songs were recorded mostly in standard tuning. You dont need to fill your entire computer drive with guitar tracks but do layer some.
So I propose to you this: Forget about mics for a second. Get a sound out of the amp that youre happy with, whether it be via Metalzone or whatever. That will be translated (as accurately as possible) to tape by the microphone and processing. And dont forget, different compressors, preamps and equalizers color the tone as well so once you find a sound your happy with, you may still have dial turning to do. As I mentioned earlier, an sm57 on the speaker grille pointed at the outside of the cone is all you need. Do one take of the guitar to tape, and then do another. Pan the 1st guitar left and the 2nd right. If you like, do a 3rd and pan it center. Just be careful because that can lead to frequency masking problems. If you prefer compression to tape (or disk) then do so, if not, then run the guitars through a stereo compressor afterwards. A nice, deep threshold and a ratio of about 3 to 5 (yes, it seems a bit high but it adds to the flava) should sound nice but be careful not to make the guitars sound "squashed". As for eq, the heavier bands out nowadays are usually tuned to at least"D" or even lower and hardcore bands surpass that (give Bad Luck 13 Riot Extravaganza a listen. theyre tuned to "A"). Having that kind of low end on the guitars will hide the balls of the bass and the bass will "mask" the kick drum. Run a low pass filter on the guitars at about 100 but if needed, up to about 200hz. This will let you bass come through very nicely. Then do the same on the bass guitar at about 60 to 75hz to make plenty of room for the kick drum.
I hope I've shed some light on the subject for you. I'll close with this, what I have written is merely my suggestion for a solution to your problem. There is no one solid answer to any kind of "best sound" or "favorite tone" question. Music itself is based entirely upon opinion so just because I prefer certain ways to doing things, or the top Hollywood producers emphasize one point of view, you may not agree. There is no wrong way to liking something. Experimentation goes a long way and can solve many problems before they even arise. So good luck to you.
Chris